Lance Foulis 0:01
Everybody, welcome to another bonus episode of Lancelot roundtable. For this bonus episode, I wanted to try something new we hadn't previously done on the roundtable. Allow me to elaborate. When I was originally thinking of doing this bonus episode, I wanted it to be a review of the first season of the chosen TV series. Well, as we recorded, it turned out a bit differently than I had originally planned. So I wanted to explain three things before you listen to the episode. First thing, my special guest co host, and I talk about reviewing the chosen throughout throughout our our talk. What actually happened during this recording wasn't really a review. Instead, I would say we just had a discussion about the chosen TV series as we recapped our thoughts and feelings for watching the first season. Second, as already stated, My original like what I was thinking about envisioning for this bonus episode was kind of a review of the entire season of the chosen TV series of the first season. Well, one episode recording for Lancelot roundtable was not even nearly enough time to do a quote review of an entire season of a TV TV series. So we we didn't even remotely get close to the end of the entire to like talking about the whole the whole first season of the chosen. And third, there are spoilers obviously in this in in our discussion of the chosen TV series. So listen at your own risk if you haven't seen it already. Now if you haven't, I really highly recommend it. So definitely, definitely take the time to go see it. Now I definitely hope that you enjoy listening to our discussion. And as always, thank you so much for taking the time to listen into the roundtable we really appreciate all of you that regularly listen in to our episodes.
David Eckl 1:50
You get your paycheck today but every month you have to go to this hut stand in line and pay it
Lance Foulis 1:58
yeah cuz right now dude like we don't have to see how much taxes are coming out of our paycheck Yes, we just get our direct deposit and and then every time you look at your your your cheque and you're like, wait, you took how much my paycheck would have been what Hello, everybody and welcome back to land sloths roundtable. Today we have an episode where we are going to be reviewing a TV series. That TV series is called a chosen. And here to help me with that review is my good friend David eco. Dave, welcome to the roundtable. Hi,
David Eckl 2:44
Lance. Happy to be here.
Lance Foulis 2:45
Yeah, happy to have you man. So we are going to be doing a review of the chosen. You feel up for that.
David Eckl 2:50
I am totally up for it. Sweet. One of the best. Yes,
Lance Foulis 2:54
it's a fantastic fantastic series. Why don't you tell the people a little bit about yourself?
David Eckl 2:59
Yeah, so Lance you and I met a couple of years ago couple couple it's I think it's been seven or eight it seems like it's been a couple but at the company we currently work for still today. I am a big apple aficionado as you well know we've already talked about that.
Lance Foulis 3:15
Number eight your cubicle you had those like what was it like the original icons on the very first app or something like that?
David Eckl 3:21
I had something like that a lot of Apple pictures now it's just working from home I don't have those anymore. So yeah, forget about it. But yeah, big apple time. Guy love it. love everything about it.
Lance Foulis 3:33
They heard you kind of like golf to
David Eckl 3:36
golf. Yes. Golf on the weekends in the summer is kind of my go to I really enjoy the time out on the course. My data to now has a month old, three year old. So it's a little hectic in the home. But we're making it you make it work, right? We make it work. That's for sure. There's two boys, right? Two boys, Olin and Bo and I'm really thankful for them. I love being a dad, as I'm sure you're well aware. Oh, it's fantastic. So
Lance Foulis 4:06
it's I feel like it's one of the biggest challenges ever been through. But it's also one of the biggest rewards biggest adventure biggest reward? Yes. Especially when you really I feel like once we got past the infant stage. I mean, we've had this conversation before. When you're when for me personally, when I was in the infant stage, it was just lack of sleep really got to me. Yes. So once we got out of the infant stage and everybody's sleeping through the night, then it just becomes like, Oh, you're living with these little humans that have these really interesting personalities. They throw giant fits sometimes. And that's not fun, but it's still very fascinating. And then like when they do start Yeah, it's just it's very rewarding, right? challenging, but rewarding,
David Eckl 4:42
right. One of my biggest things I like to say is the word bummer around the home, so bummer. Well now my three almost three year old is now walking around the house and saying Oh bummer. Yeah, when something isn't right and I'm like okay, they are little sponges.
Lance Foulis 4:56
They are little sponges. They absorb everything. They watch everything they See it all? Yeah, it's kind of scary. Anyway. So today, Dave, we're going to review the chosen. I don't remember when I found out about this. I think the first season was out when I first heard about it, I think was one of our friends one of Kim's good friends. Christine, I think she messaged Kim or something because we were frustrated about, there's nothing that kids can watch. There's nothing, there's nothing good that we can watch. And then I think it was Christine who messenger on Facebook or something was like, Hey, I, you guys should just watch the chosen the kids loved our kids love the chosen and it's really good. And it's really well done. So then I found out that it was like, I'm putting this in quotes everybody a Christian show. And I personally have some thoughts about, again, Christian in quotes, content that gets created movies, right feel like you can kind of always tell when you see one of these TV shows or movies. Oh, yeah, this is this is done by one of those Christian. I don't even know what you'd call them. But with with this. So when I went in, I was like, I wasn't very excited about watching this. And I think Kim and I then watched, like the first episode, and I was literally just blown away. Everything. Everything was just spot on. The music was amazing. The acting was fantastic. And the emote, you were immediately drawn in. I just I loved it. I was hooked right away. You
David Eckl 6:29
Yeah, the theatrics of it. I think that's what you're looking for. There was just on point, like, it was one of those things where, especially in the day and age today, if you're not hooked from the start, or kind of get a little bit, you know, have a sense of Wow, that's good. You might not watch it past, you know, the intro or first, you know, a couple of minutes in there. 100% I think for my wife and I Katie, we're just like, wow, like, is intense. Yes, it is intense. It's kind of I like the it's a straight shot in terms of you know, what they're trying to talk about. It's not like they're trying to cover everything in one episode. It's spread out obviously over. Yep. And I really appreciated like, there's a very serious part in every thing that they're talking about. But there's also the humor. Yeah, that keeps you kind of coming back. Yes. It's funny. I really, you know, I, I watched season one and two, we watched it again. We're like, Let's go like, let's watch. Let's get to the other seasons. I know they have seven. Planning. Yeah, planning seven. So they are in
Lance Foulis 7:29
three right there in
David Eckl 7:30
three. So three just got got funded, officially, the whole series, the whole series got funded. So the whole season, the whole season. So now they're going to start filming. Okay, so I'm excited. Yeah, very excited. It's actually I did have a couple of notes here that I was surprised about is actually shot in Utah. So season one into place. I knew that Utah, yeah. And they're now they moved it down to Dallas. And that's where season three and beyond will be shot. But also the cool part about it when I was reading about it, is that they're actually going to create a tourist attraction, where you can go seasonally, that's, and thanks. So I think that would be a fun kind of thing to go see how it's shot. And yeah, maybe some of the people are there that are the actors and you know, the different props and how they did it would be a cool thing to see. Yeah, take the kids 200%
Lance Foulis 8:20
agree with that. I didn't know any of that. I don't even think I knew or were shot. I think I thought Season Two for some reason was in Texas, but that's probably just because I saw something about season three on Instagram because I followed the director Dallas Jenkins on Instagram. And he's always posting stuff about where they're at. And so I think I just saw something where they were in Dallas, or maybe because his name is Dallas. I thought that everything was just in Dallas. That's a good one. Oh, geez. Okay, sorry folks. We had a little bit of a technical glitch. I think the headphones I had David using are bad. And I thought I'd got rid of my bad headphones but anyway, here we are. We're back. We're back. We're live and we're recording technically not live so what I was saying is I have like this website the synopsis place so it has all of the I have episode one the different things that happened in episode one so I can kind of think through I was looking through this yesterday. I know you already have some notes, but I just thought we would start with season one. So I'm just I'm just remembering like yeah, firing it up and just immediately being like, wow, like the cinematography is good. The music's good. And I was pretty much immediately hooked. So if you can remember the episode one does a really good job of like enjoying a lot of different characters in a really interesting way. So I love how in episode one, they open with just it's it's nighttime, it's this little girl, it's her dad, there's a tent, so they don't even have like a home and she's afraid I think she You said she's afraid of the dark, essentially. And then her dad's I think he hands her the doll or she has the doll. Yep. And then he's like, What do we say? And then he, he quotes Isaiah, Isaiah 43, which says, Thus says the Lord who created you, oh, Jacob, and he who formed you, oh is real fear not for I have redeemed you, I have called you by name, you are mine. And she keeps that verse in her little doll. And then if you remember, like, immediately after that, like seeing the very next scene is essentially her dad dying of something. And then it cuts to several years later, when this little girl is all grown up, and she's in a city, and she's not having the best of times. What are your memories of of that opening?
David Eckl 10:41
Yeah. So I like from the start, it seems like every single episode is a chance to say and be who is that? Like? Who like who is this little girl? And like, how many people are in the Bible? Hundreds or 1000s of people? And it's like, Wait, who is this one person? And who are they jumping in with? I do remember. I believe it was Mary. Right. And Mary, at a very young age, what we'll see in the next couple of episodes in terms of what she is going to become and then turn into but seen from the start her I don't know just innocence and who she was and just kind of like holding on to something special. I think a lot of times a lot of people have that one special thing that they kind of hold on to a doll, a bear a blanket, that being passed down to her and her holding on to that thing I feel like was just a quick kinda like, what is that? And that really from the start season one episode one like yeah, really captivates the audience and says, Okay, well, what is that? And even see, you know, the Isaiah 59 written on it. It's like, Okay, that's interesting. So, I don't know, that just kind of jumped right into it from the start for me where it's like, what is that? Yeah, kind of follow along. And every single episode that you watch really is either a flashback, or some kind of fast forward to what's going to be talked about any episode and kind of ties back to it later in the episode. So yeah, I think what we see initially we'll, we'll get to that, but we'll come back into that picture eventually.
Lance Foulis 12:12
Yeah, I that's a really good way to put put it when you were saying like, how, like, a lot of times they start an episode. And you don't know, it's these new characters that you haven't seen yet. Even like in later episodes, it won't start with the characters that you've known. It'll be like a brand new character, and they're doing something you're like, What are they doing? And then, and then it clicks at some point, because they go through and they're doing what they're doing. And all of a sudden, it's like, Oh, this isn't even like Jesus's time. This is this Jacob, right? Oh, that's Jacob and his sons. Oh, that's what they're doing. And like, that's just so fascinating how they do that almost like, I think last, the TV series last was the first one that I can remember that would jump around time, like that. But yeah, like how I liked how it opens. And then it's like this little girl on you're like, I don't know who this is. She's got a dad. She's living in a tent. She has this doll. They know God. So clearly, this must be an Israelite, right? But I don't know who this is. This isn't Jesus. Because it's a little girl.
David Eckl 13:13
I like it. Yeah, it for me. I think the context like it would be it would feel off if there was like a context to say, here's what this is. And here's the time. And here's the story. It gives me that sense of okay, what is this and trying to think through the entire Bible? Like, okay, what are they talking about from this first episode? Now watching it over again? I, I know what they're talking about. But it gives that kind of, okay, what is this? Exactly? And where are they in the Bible? And what is the story showing us?
Lance Foulis 13:44
Yeah, it's like, it's like, it's a really interesting way to take it creatively. Because instead of, if they like, opened with a paragraph to place you where you are with who you are, instead of doing that what they're doing is they're just letting you be a fly on the wall. Right and experience what's going on and like, yeah, so I liked how they set that up. And when we say its merits, it wasn't, I mean, spoiler alert, this has been out for a while. So if you're listening to this, you know, pause it and go watch the first season or the first episode and then so we don't spoil anything for you. But the Mary that it is actually Mary Magdalene, so it's not like Mary Jesus's mom. So super interesting that that's the character that they introduced, introduced us with, it was intentional. I'll just say that it was intentional that we start with her. And then the next scene that they have here is with Nicodemus, you so you there's somebody traveling along the road, and he's wearing a nice outfit, he's got a girl, clearly his wife that he's traveling with, and he's got like priestly garments on and then Romans show up like Romans with armor and everything show up and they're basically the Romans are coming to tell him we don't know who this guy is yet, but he seems to be an importer. are in person. So the Roman guard is basically like, hey, people are fishing when they shouldn't be fishing and we're not getting taxes. Is that basically the setup? I believe so? Yeah. Because it's like, we need our taxes, and they're fishing when you people aren't supposed to do any work. And we're not getting taxes for that. So you need to, you need to make us put a stop to this. And that guy, he's a little bit like, I don't do your work, and they're like, well, you're going to anyway, so that's what I remember. Is that what you remember?
David Eckl 15:26
Yeah, Nicodemus is a he's an important character in the full season one, like looking at it and really seen him from the start, you know, he is of importance with when they're riding, I believe it was horse and chariot like he is sitting like a king. And his role, what you'll see throughout the entire season one and season two, actually is is very important, but just to hear what he has to say and how he handles certain things he's getting he's got a little bit of some intrigue to him about what's going on. And understanding okay, something's something's up. Like he seems like there's something going on. And just in that early episode, and that early interaction with the Romans, something's not right. There's some something missing there that keeps intriguing you Yes. Okay. What is okay, what's going on here? Yeah. Yeah, that was a good, that was a good start. I really liked that. Start to add to see Nicodemus and what he eventually will do, and how he meets Jesus and talks to him. And that's tough. So you can kind of see right away this is kind of getting into the story of Jesus and what is going to come?
Lance Foulis 16:42
Yeah, yeah, it's this show does a really good job of getting you invested not just in a singular character, but like, it sets up like a full story of like so many individual characters, and they're all very, very, very unique. Yes. And they all are drawn to this guy, Jesus, for very different reasons, yet kind of the saint, it's how they do that is really, really, really well done. And by the way, I always do this whenever I'm watching something, if I see if I see an actor, I'm like, oh, what else have I seen him in? So the guy that plays Nicodemus, his the actor's name is Erick Avari, who's actually a fairly well known actor. He was in like the first scene of Independence Day, he's the guy that wakes up and hits his head on a thing because somebody wakes him up, and he's monitoring for alien activity. First time I saw this actor was in actually Stargate. He plays like the main guy in the movie Stargate, sorry, the chief of like the locals. He's like the chief or the locals. So anyway, they got a that was that was one of the I don't think I recognized any of the other actors in this series. But I did recognize him. So I just wanted to call that out. Okay, so the next is there anything else you want to say about that scene? Good to go. Okay. All right. Then the next scene, we are introduced to Matthew, a tax collector. He's an Israelite, but he collects taxes for the Romans. And he is the actor that plays. Matthew is Paris Patel. And he's an Outstanding Actor in this role. Do you remember that? You remember that scene.
David Eckl 18:19
Matthew is interesting, from the direction that he plays in this first off in the Bible, but then also in this series, just about where he comes from, and where it he is doing and how he goes about himself is interesting, because he's, he's truly unlike anyone else. Because everyone doesn't like him. Yeah. So any, we get into it with throughout the seasons, and the series is of how he kind of handles himself. But in this situation, we see him early about what he is going to be doing and what he is called to do. And I remember in kind of that first episode that Matthews just kind of, he's a little different. Yeah. And how he handles himself and seeing that i He's another one of those characters. That's like we now in been introduced to three characters already tuned. Mary, Nicodemus and Matthew, they all have this interesting type of thing to him. Yeah. And it's another one of those notches that's like, Okay, what is this and what's going on? Let's find out more about what they're about. Obviously, when you introduce a tax collector into this series, that it's going to obviously interrupt throw people off because it's someone that a lot of people don't like, and it kind of creates that maybe a bad character right off the right off the bat, like, yeah, why is this guy collecting taxes? Let's not show about him, but he was just as important to Jesus as anyone else. So yeah, it was early on he kind of get that feel for who he is and what he's gonna. What he's going to be for the for the show.
Lance Foulis 19:59
Yeah. So like in the scene, he's like, on his way to his work, and he can't take a direct route, because that would put could put him at danger because like you said, a tax collector is not a very liked individual, they're collecting taxes for Rome, I think historically, they were known to, you know, maybe make people pay a little bit more than what they had to pay. And they would kind of take a little extra for themselves. So they were kind of like, despise and especially if, if you're an Israelite, which Matthew is, your all Israelites are subject under Rome right now. And he's working for, quote, the enemy. Because you're, you're under the you're under the rule of Rome, but you're your own ethnic group. And the fact that you're collecting taxes for the Romans, but you're actually an Israelite, there's, like, inherent levels of feelings of betrayal that we get into, obviously, but just the fact that he's very isolated kind of individual, he seems to like it first. But he seems to also not be happy about it. And just the nature of him not even being able to take a direct route to work and having almost smuggle himself. And then he gets there. And then that's when he has protection, because there's Roman guards there to kind of keep him safe, right, which we find out later. Well, we'll get to it.
David Eckl 21:16
But even like in that's in that first scene, when he's going to work, what you see about him is he is trying to be as clean as possible. I think he thinks everyone else is dirty, you always see kind of not touching things, or just kind of being a little standoffish. And it's like, Okay, what's going on here? Like, do you not, you know, he is is or like, you not associate with these people? Yeah, because you are now the tax collector. It's, it is interesting.
Lance Foulis 21:47
That just that reminds me because I think in the opening scene is when he's at his house, right? Yes. And he's like, got like a whole plate of food, like nice food, what you probably consider nice food. He's like dabbing, like, oils on himself or whatever to smell good. And then he puts on these really nice looking leather sandals, which he then proceeds to step in, poop. And then he, alright, we had a little bit of a hiccup there. I just caught it out of corner, my eye it stopped recording. So now we're recording again. So I think what I was just saying is like, this guy, Matthew, the character that we're introduced to, he's got his own. He has a backup pair of sandals. And you can kind of I got the sense that nobody says anything. But like, Oh, those are probably extra expensive sandals. These are like some Nike, you know, Jordan whatever's Yes, they
David Eckl 22:33
are. They are not, they are not the Old Navy $5 Summer sandal. These are not that
Lance Foulis 22:40
these are not those sandals. Yeah, they're just like that these are be super expensive. And not the the average person couldn't have it. And then he goes, and he walks steps in some poop. And he immediately has a backup pair that he can replace. And there's even that character that is he gets into the back of the guy's wagon, but the character is like, Oh, you're throwing those away, because you stepped in poop, give them to me that I could sell them and feed my family for a month. He said something like that. So we can tell that Matthew is very wealthy? He has. I don't know, he has a status type job. And he's just in a comfortable type position, I guess I would say
David Eckl 23:15
He is very young. It's a good point of his age and might not be the wisest to make the decision will spoiler it also later on, you'll see with his parents, his parents don't agree with him being a tax collector, right at all. So I think he is a little young and immature in the fact that he chose this route for his life. Yeah. And he's kind of going about it on his own. Yeah, to figure things out.
Lance Foulis 23:42
Yep. Yeah, that's good. All right. And then we go the next scene, it takes us back to Nicodemus, who has arrived at a synagogue and we basically, then it basically shows us how important he is. Because when he arrives at the synagogue, all of the people in the synagogue had been waiting for him to arrive. And basically, they start calling him like the Teacher of teachers. He's just you get a sense, like, this isn't just some random priestly guy. This isn't just some random Pharisee. Like this is somebody who's really high up there on whatever this hierarchy is. Do you have any thoughts about that scene?
David Eckl 24:19
Just that you see, especially in the synagogue, you see early on the tradition and the history of what faith meant to people. And it was the history of Nicodemus being what they called him the teacher.
Lance Foulis 24:34
All right, another technical issue, but we are back. Okay, we were talking you were talking about the Teacher of teachers.
David Eckl 24:41
Nicodemus being the Teacher of teachers. And what we had talked about was him being that to so many people, at that certain time that whenever he would go someplace he had that respect for everyone else, or that everyone else had would have the respect for him and he would, everyone would look at him as a And person in that day because that's all they had to go for because of his faith at that time. So it was a very important person in the early go of this and what people's faith was at that time.
Lance Foulis 25:15
Yeah. Yeah, that's good. I was I was kind of blown away because they had prepared a reading room for him. And so he gets in, and like everything set up where he's going to be reading what scrolls he's got, they have the pen thing that that so like, they have this thing that looks like a pen. And it's like, when they read, they're moving this thing along each word. So they're not actually writing anything, but it's like an instrument that they use when they actually read, which was wild. So they're like, is everything set, you know, to your standards? I think they had like some snacks there. And he's like, Yeah, that's fine, thank you. But I was just like, man, person arrives and like you have your own reading area set up and all of these very particular things like that's some that's some level of status, for sure. Okay, and then I one thing that's important to point out about this particular scene is that when it ends, a Roman shows up and proceeds to usher himself into this room, which is apparently like a no, no kind of disrespectful, and they're like, well, like all the other guys are like, What are you doing? You can't just walk in here? And he's like, Yes, I actually can. Thank you. And that's when the Romans are like to Nicodemus the character, like, we have a problem. There's a demon possessed person there. There was another scene, I think, that we had had where it flashes back to Mary and she's having some major issues. She actually sees. She sees a Rome and I think, and then she has a flashback, of of like earlier on, and it's just a silhouette of a Roman soldier coming into the room where she's at shutting the door, and you can infer what happened to her. She was a victim at that point. And then when she has that memory, she's having that memory from seeing a Roman in real time. And then like is messing with her? Like she you can just tell she's in a real turmoil, and then Then she's having issues in a room. Did I miss anything? You did not
David Eckl 27:17
the one character I was gonna bring up in, really the start of it that will see important throughout everything is Schmell. Oh, yeah, shimmy. Well, Chanel, Chanel, like just the name of it. It's like, Who is this? Yeah, who is he? He I believe the guy was like, set up the room, right? Yes. And he was, I believe the right hand man to Nicodemus, that sounds right. Yeah, he was almost the next in line. And it does definitely the sense that you get it and yes, and there's something particular about him that was interesting, where he was, okay, what's going on? Like another one of those characters that's like, Okay, we have Mary, who is in this state of turmoil, turmoil. And then you have Roman guards, you have Matthew, and just one of those people that were keeping track of that. I mean, I've read the Bible, pretty much in my entire life. I haven't heard of him before, right in the Bible. So another a character that was, I believe, in the book, but also important in this to show kind of who Nicodemus is, and give them that support to what he's going to do.
Lance Foulis 28:19
Yeah. Did you know when you say like you would read? Do you remember anybody named schmo shimmy? Well, in the Bible, not to my knowledge. Yeah, me either. But that's one cool thing about I think the series is that it introduces, it introduces characters that fit in in the world, and bring it more to life, I think. But yeah, he's a very interesting character, because your mind knows like, I'm cutting the track with this person. And you don't know why. But yeah, the show does a really good job of that. I think, like, oh, I need to need to pay attention to this guy is like as soon as Nicodemus arrives, this character from UL is like, Oh, I'm so glad that you're here. I've set up this room for you and like yelling at the Roman guard, you're not allowed in here. And then so one funny thing that happens when we're kind of all over the place, but it is what it is. When the Roman guard or when the Roman soldier shows up and they're like Nicodemus, you need to go down to the red quarter because there's somebody who's having a demon possessed situation and we can't have it. And he's taught. I don't think we know but you could probably have inferred it. They're talking about Mary Mary's having a severe issue. Some kind of demon possession type of a thing is what they're alluding to. And Nicodemus Nicodemus, his response is like, I don't, I don't deal with affairs of Rome, that's you need to deal with that. And then the Roman soldier is like, what did he say? He said something like you need to go take care of it. Your Way or or Rome will take care of it with our fire of fires. I don't remember what he said like before he said fires of fires, but that was hilarious because he basically was like, he asked nicely the first time then Nicodemus was like, No, that's Rome's problem. And then he's like, Well, Oh, you're actually going to do it, or we're going to just go down and destroy the place.
David Eckl 30:04
It's, it was an interesting scene, quote unquote, where he went to go do that. Like he did not want to go down this Yeah. Or they can Amos did not want to do that.
Lance Foulis 30:15
Yeah, it's a super it's so like, you definitely get the sense in this scene that it's a very edgy, not great area of town is the place that you don't want to go visit. You're not safe there. All of the deplorables are there. So this this high up guy wants nothing to do with going to that area of town.
David Eckl 30:36
Right? Yeah, it is. It's going to be an interesting scene in it to see that someone that was possessed to being that taking out of them of what's to come there. Yeah. It's not an area that he wanted to go to but their own. The only true way for her to come out of that was for Nicodemus to go down there. Interesting that the Roman guard would say, hey, like, you need to take care of it instead of us. Because you would think with someone being possessed, you would probably choose the fire fires for them rather than saying, hey, Nicodemus, you need to go take care of them. Yeah. And then have that come out of her?
Lance Foulis 31:16
Yeah, yeah. So yeah, it was a very, very, very interesting scene. So like, obviously, once that scene is over, it cuts from Nicodemus his storyline, essentially over to two brothers. So the next thing we're introduced to Simon Peter, and his brother, Andrew, and what are they doing?
David Eckl 31:38
They are, were they fishing, they
Lance Foulis 31:41
are gambling. They were in they were using, they were fighting. Simon Peter was like, basically in a boxing street match with this other guy who we find out later is his brother in law. And they're basically gambling and betting on Simon. They don't explain the rules. But basically, Simon is getting just punched around. And you kind of figure out that he's, he's playing the game. He's not really as hurt as he's letting on. He's not almost done, as he's letting on. And his brother Andrew is like looking on telling him you got to take another punch. And then Sam Peters, like, I don't want to take another one. And then his brother Andrew is like no, like, it's all like signals, right? Nobody's saying anything. They're just making looks at each other. And then he's like, No, you gotta take another one. So then he takes another punch. And he's acting like super hurt. Simon Peter is acting like he's super hurt. He's not called Simon Peter yet. He's just called Simon. And and then he like, Does this really cool hop, kicks himself up onto his feet after something apparently went the right way. And then he starts beating the tar out of the other guy. So Simon all of a sudden flips the tables, and is clearly not as hurt he said he had seemed to be and then he beats down the other guy who's his brother in law, which I don't even know if it reveals that. I don't think so. Any any thoughts on on on that?
David Eckl 33:03
Interesting that fighting is something that's prevalent in the day and age and everything that's going on, obviously, it's another one of those things where we were introduced to Mary first now Nicodemus, and then when we're introduced to Matthew, and now we're introduced to more disciples of Christ, and you see that and like, what they're going to become for Jesus, and like, in the fighting aspect of it for me, I was like, okay, like, this is interesting. I'm not too much into fighting. Like, I don't like to watch it, you know, but I understand back then, obviously, it was some hobby that people enjoy doing. And they would
Lance Foulis 33:44
was a form of entertainment when you didn't have a TV, no TV or watch a couple of days.
David Eckl 33:48
Exactly. each other. Exactly. And they would gamble on it. And that was the afternoon of fun when they weren't working. It was it was interesting.
Lance Foulis 33:56
Yeah. Yeah. And I also like thinking about overall how they do the TV show. Like if you've if, if you have been and like, I grew up in the church, I grew up reading my Bible. Well, actually, I didn't really start reading my Bible until I was older. I thought it was boring. But in reading the Bible in, you know, if you've gone to Sunday school, you've heard stories, you know, Peter, he's like, he's a top tier character and your brightness if you know the story of the Bible, Andrew, not so much a top tier character, but still an important character Jesus top to your character, Nicodemus. Now, I don't even know if he's literally mentioned in the Bible. He is He is maybe once or twice, okay, so he's a real character. Yes. And then Mary Magdalene, she is as well, but again, not a key character, Matthew, I don't really remember reading. I mean, he wrote one of the books in the Bible, but I don't really remember noticing him is a character that had a bunch of stories in the Bible. And what's interesting about this, this series is they don't, they don't start you off with a character writers that you're expecting like, Oh, it's a story about Jesus, we still haven't seen Jesus yet. And we're like, what three or four scenes in still haven't met Jesus don't know where he is. Don't know who he is. Maybe we have seen him, we don't know. And then finally, now we're just getting introduced to somebody that people that know the story of the Bible, they would know. Oh, Peter, I know who Peter is. His name was his name was Simon. So he's not the first character Mary is the first character, which is really fascinating to me. Okay, so basically, we get the sense that Simon is maybe not your he he may be isn't your the role model that you would want your kids to model themselves after he's gambling, he's fighting, trying to get money. And we realized, I don't remember if we realize in the scene, but basically, they need money. So they're trying to figure out how to make money because they haven't been making enough money fishing. And then we find out that Peter is married, which I think was a very fascinating take. I don't personally have any theories on whether or not he was actually married, except for I was reading mark the other night. And it did say, talk about his mother in law was sick, and that Jesus healed his mother and see that so if he has a mother in law, and again, I don't know the actual Hebrew of the book of Mark, but I remember reading that it's a mother in law, not his mother. So did you have any? What did you think when you saw Peter is married and his wife's name is Eden
David Eckl 36:30
Simon is a very interesting character in this, you know, there's something about him when you're watching just kind of funny,
Lance Foulis 36:38
witty, yes, he good humor,
David Eckl 36:41
yes, has good humor, something about him. And when you go into the scene initially, like with him fighting, and then finding out he has a wife, there's some kind of, I don't know, sleight, I would say in terms of what he is doing and trying to do and get, you know, obviously, money to be able to pay taxes to be able to live to be able to do certain things. So he's trying to find all these different routes to take to be able to do something. Especially Andrew mean, his brother's a little bit, I would say, a little bit more wise, in terms of just is nature. But Simon is, is an interesting character, I think he's going to be great. And it's like, you would never have pictured if this was the first time you're watching or reading or following along with this. And you have no history of the Bible, or what it's talking about. The people that are starting to come into the scene. I don't think anyone would have an idea that they're all going to be together. Yeah, at some point. You know, it's like, way these stories,
Lance Foulis 37:44
Jesus is gonna pick all these people to be in his troop. Yeah. See that? Because they're all two different.
David Eckl 37:49
Yes. All different corners, the high levels, low levels, fighting people demon possessed. Simon is an interesting one, especially Andrew, and this.
Lance Foulis 38:00
Yeah. And just like all the other characters that we've mentioned, they're all all of the actors are fantastic. And Paris Patel, like we were saying is, is who plays Matthew, I've never seen him in anything before. Shahar. Isaac is who plays Simon and he is super ripped. Yes, super ripped. And he's a fantastic actor. And I didn't think of this until you were kind of talking about it. But are you we're talking about Simon and Andrew but they have really great chemistry. Like you totally can believe that. They're brothers the way that they get they're very different. And just how they interact with each other is very brotherly. Which I guess you would expect but it's it's well done to their
David Eckl 38:41
jobs in nature of being fishermen. Like you need to be very muscular you need to have a lot of I would say mind power but also that body power to be able to take these nets bringing all these fish you know do those kinds of things and do that I feel like getting your
Lance Foulis 38:59
fingers all caught up with those nets you probably have major calluses I mean, have you ever seen Deadliest Catch people? Did you ever see that show? Deadliest Catch? No. Oh my gosh, I was really into that show like I don't know how long ago but yeah, it's just these fishermen in Alaska that go out and like get crab and it's super dangerous like the weather can turn in an instant and yeah, so anyway,
David Eckl 39:21
but the net like there's no modern technology there's no hooks to be able to pull things in manually or automatically from the boats. It's your hands are out there. You're pulling in these fish you need to be very muscular and well fit to be able to withstand the days and you know, they're not just hanging out on the boat about getting suntan out the hair. They're right. They're working. You know, it is a working man's job and that is something that is very important to see. Yeah, in the visual of that too. I you know, you resonate a little bit with that, that they are relentless in their efforts to find a wage to support your family to support your why If Yeah, the mother in law for assignment isn't sick yet we don't see her right sick that will come eventually. But to be able to provide for the family is huge in this situation in this instance. So yep, I feel like he's going to all ends to figure out how we can bring in money for that.
Lance Foulis 40:15
Yep. And like, it is really interesting when you meet Eden, you can see like, Oh, this is Simon's house, this is his wife, you get the sense that they're really young, like, like, in in that culture, you've alluded to this, but in that culture, you're the guy, you're out there and you gotta you got to do what you got to do to bring in provision. And if you don't do it, you and your wife starve your wife is home, taking care of things, getting food ready, taking care of the house, so that the house stays in order. But I just remember, I don't remember if it was this scene, but just kind of like the scenes that that we have with Peter, or excuse me with Simon and Eden, is just his, the burden, you can see the burden that he's carrying in need wanting to take care of his wife, and there's even like, Andrews around, he's doing stuff too. But you could you just get this set. I got this sense watching Peter. He's, it felt to me like he's more newly married, maybe a year, maybe two years or whatever. But like, he's just got this burden of responsibility on him. Like, I've got to take care of stuff. And I just feel that way. And I remember being young and married Kim, I was 25. When Kim and I got married, she was 21. I did not have an established career, but I can remember the burden of like, I need to be able to provide for my family. And like when things aren't going well. I can remember many times when things wouldn't go well. And it just seems like things aren't going right. And so just I just remember getting this set, getting that sense and feeling for Peter, especially as we get to know him like, things aren't easy. I can kind of see why he's making decisions that he's making that I wouldn't necessarily make. But he is under like a level of duress. Did you get any feelings like that?
David Eckl 41:59
Yeah, so Eden is very much so a character a person that is really being forward in terms of how she's, you know, trying to be a wife to Simon and I think, especially the scenes I know what you're talking about, like where you're seeing her, you know, make food she's doing the laundry, she's cleaning up the house, you know, Simon's a lot of times I think I remember vividly and there is that Eden, said to said to her was there said to him said, Well, you know, where are you going? He's like, I gotta go, I'll be back. And like one of the things like he's going to do something to either make money to do something for fishing, but he's trying to figure it out where the responsibility now isn't just on his own. It's to provide for his family. Yeah. And seeing that was was key too.
Lance Foulis 42:51
Yeah. So okay, so the next scene, we actually go back to Nicodemus and he is traveling through the seedy area of town. They call it the red quarter. It's where unsavory characters are, and they're walking around I think it's just funny because you got Nicodemus I think she she Manuel's like, to your point before he's like, right behind them right hand guy, I'm putting that in quotes. And there's like two or three other these guys, you can just tell they're incredibly out of their element. They're very uncomfortable, I think they see either prostitutes, or slaves or slaves that are prostitutes, like on the corner on the corner of the street. I'm putting that in quotes. Because it's, it's there's an image that happens and you just see them kind of look and make eye contact. When you see Nicodemus and his cohorts making eye contact with this scene, where these people are either getting sold or they're they're standing on a corner waiting to be purchased or something like that. You can just tell Oh, no, I need to avert my eyes. I shouldn't even be seeing what I'm seeing and they're traveling to go deal with this situation. And then when they get close to it, they have the audio of what we assume is Mary because there's a room or like I guess what we could call an apartment and you can just hear growling wailing very just noises that make you feel something's very very off
David Eckl 44:22
very uneasy, very uneasy. Yes. And even going into it it's I mean, you don't there's no other show or series that you would see something like this being talked about or shown like it's not something you would watch on TV it's very much you know, she was demon possessed. And hearing those things it's like what is going on here like you know, you're intrigued to find out more you want to keep watching you don't want to like turn away you want you want to see what she might be going through and what this Nicodemus who, besides the Roman guards potentially As the top guy, you know, in the city, the Teacher of teachers coming in to treating probably one of the lowest type of people in the city. Yep. And having an interaction where it's, this doesn't happen too often. Right? Let's watch it. Let's get into it.
Lance Foulis 45:17
Yeah, absolutely. And you can tell I mean, they do a really good job of setting up like, okay, something is really like you're hearing these noises that are coming from that room and you're like, Okay, this is actually very serious. And this guy, yeah, should be able to do something in this situation, but he doesn't look like he's not inspiring a whole lot of confidence in what he's going to do. But then he kind of takes charge he goes, he looks to his dude Shmi well, and he basically is like, go get these ingredients, some kind of bark and some kind of incense thing and like, go get it quickly. And so that guy runs off come back and then he's got like, nicotine has has like, some branches I think with some things that he's got like an incense thing. So it's like smoking out. So So it's basically like a chain. And at the end of the chain is like a big, I don't know, bowl type of enclosed bowl thing and there's smoke coming out. So there's some kind of hot coals in there. This like burning something is making smoke and so then he goes in, he's got his, quote tools, his exorcism tools, and he goes into the room. And they made this part like, pretty, pretty scary. In my opinion, it was a little bit more, they pushed, they pushed an edge that like kind of what you said earlier, you wouldn't see the type of a thing in any kind of Christian type production. I wouldn't expect they're not pulling any punches. It's like yes, this lady is in severe torment. And it's a it's a demonic possession. And she's just kind of like moving around on the floor you don't see her face it's just the back of the face and then it comes to the point he's like talking and like the her like the stuff that's coming I have no not even say like her voice because it's not her voice it's like what the noises are coming out of her vocal cords are changing and getting more intense and then she like turns to look at him as he's like saying the stuff that he's saying he's like I juror you get out leave this woman alone. And like then it like her face turns to look at them. And the way that they did that was wow, I was really on the edge of my seat. What are your thoughts? This
David Eckl 47:32
like the story is in the Bible, so it is true. And I like initially you said that you watched it with your kids this
Lance Foulis 47:41
Oh, we didn't watch this scene with the kid. Okay, okay. Well, that's all day would have nightmares for a while
David Eckl 47:45
because I don't know how they would be able to do it. But I think
Lance Foulis 47:49
it was the episode The next step or three episode three which is with the kids that's the one episode they've seen
David Eckl 47:54
the what we initially talked about to the theatrics of it yes show. You know that look, and I do vividly remember that image of Mary looking at Nicodemus in what is going on is scary. Yeah, like it is very much like anything could happen. Yeah, Ines. But also at the same time, it's one of those things that keeps you coming back for more. Yeah, this demon possessed person Mary is now changing. It's coming out of her in some way. Yeah, she is going to change and do something else. And it's like, we had no other history or story of Mary at the start of this other than when she was with her dad initially. Yep. And then she young innocent kid. Exactly. And then she goes into this state over after years of torment to be able to get to this and now it's going to be a massive change to be in doing something to glorify, what's to come and that's just amazing. Yes. And I know Nicodemus in the future in this story to it, he goes into talking a little bit more about you know, what he saw there? And what he had to go through and I mean, that's just one of those notches on the belt or it's like wait, you went and faced a demon possessed person and said these things and we're in that room? I just couldn't believe what it would be like no real time outside of shooting this for the for the show, but it just unbelievable.
Lance Foulis 49:19
Yeah, like the fact that he even had the courage to go into the room is wild because if I encountered something like that in real life one I wouldn't know what to do and to just you don't know what you're gonna face when you get in there and you're trying to do something like he went in there and Elise tried Now obviously, like it failed, because the thing talked through Mary like after she is basically like, what did what did what did it say these like, we don't know you or we don't care essentially, like we're not listening to you. We don't have to listen to you. Like get out of here. We're done with you. And then he is like, just shocked and basically he just leaves in And she's not okay. And then that's that's basically the end of the scene. Yeah. It was, it was a very intense scene. Any other thoughts there?
David Eckl 50:09
I don't know how Nicodemus like he was obviously told to do it. He was going to save this, Mary, you know, he didn't know what was going to come out of it, he was going to give it his best effort to being able to healer. And has just like, that's the reality of it. Some people have that still today. And it's even seeing that how he had dealt with it was just for me, it was It was eye opening, because I'd never seen that before. In anything. Yeah. And reading it. In the Bible, you don't get that kind of context of what the video or picture of it would, would be able to show you.
Lance Foulis 50:48
Yeah, it's one thing to read in the Bible that this, you know, so and so is demon possessed, and the demons would throw him on the ground. And he would convulse for a few minutes. Like, it's like, you read that and you don't go okay. But then when you see it portrayed like that, they did it in this were like this individuals in torment, and they're, they can't do anything to help themselves in that situation is very eerie and freaky. And yeah, eye opening. I think you said that.
David Eckl 51:14
It's not like you have the popcorn bowl right next to and you're grabbing it to eat more of it. You're like, not blinking. eyes focused? Yeah, every single second of it. And it's like, wait, what? Like, this is going to come out of this person, and she's going to be completely different. It's like, what,
Lance Foulis 51:32
how do we get there? Yeah. How in the world are we going to get there? Yeah. One thing to call out here, because like her name, and my little like, website here, we know her as Lillith right now, we haven't made the connection that it's Mary. It's good point. Because that's a that's a very important thing is that we know this individual that her name is Lilith, and we don't know anything else about her other than what we've described, but nobody's called her Mary in this point. Sure. Because that's a very important thing for the close of the episode we're getting to so anyway, basically, that after Nicodemus leaves, some time passes, and then we find Lilith waking up. And she wakes up. This is important because she she has like a flashback of being with her father. And I think in this scene, yeah, she gets her she finds her doll. And like in the doll is the piece of paper she pulls out and it's the that scripture from Isaiah and so she's kept it this whole time, is she's looking at it now after having gone through this episode. And you can kind of tell like, this has happened to her before. She's just so done. I'm so sick of having to go through this stuff like can't anything like no nothing can and then she I think she rips up the piece of paper, which is a very like intense like, she had been carrying it this whole time. So whatever breaking point she is, she's at it is an intense breaking point, because she's taken this thing that she's kept with her, essentially came from her father cheese destroying it was a very intense scene,
David Eckl 53:03
very intense, especially something now you've had for that many years. And then you've gotten to that breaking point to be able to do that it's eye opening to see that and I remember, even in future episodes, she ends up reciting that verse from from memorization. So it's something that she still has in her heart that she's living with. But the symbolism of her taking that piece of paper and tearing it up seems like you know, there's a breaking point that she just had to kind of forget that maybe the past that she just went through a page turned to what's going to come.
Lance Foulis 53:37
Yep, that's good. All right. And so then we go back to last, these are the basically the last couple scenes here. We'll go through these kind of quickly. So it's tax day, and people are going to the tax booth to pay their taxes. So we are we witness Andrew and Simon going to the tax booth where Matthew is Matthew is revealed to be their tax collector, and they get there and they basically figure out that because of back taxes and everything else that they owe way more than they are Andrew was way more than they thought and Andrew cannot pay his taxes. And he's at the point, okay, we can't pay your taxes, you're gonna go to jail. Because if you couldn't pay your taxes, then you got thrown in jail where you would never be able to pay your taxes. So you basically that's it, you're you're done your life's over. And then that's when Simon tells Matthew and reveals, hey, I've got a I have an agreement with the main Roman magistrate and the magistrate. I was looking this up yesterday. I should have had this up on my on my iPad here. But a magistrate is somebody who has like pretty extensive authority. right in line with Caesar. So Simon is basically saying he has an arrangement on his taxes and Andrews taxes with the magistrate Quintus Who was the guy who was bossing Nicodemus around at the beginning of the episode and So he's basically telling Matthew Hey, you know, we don't, we won't be owing taxes because of the arrangement. Once I'm done with what I'm doing for Quintus all my taxes and all Andrews taxes will be done. And Matthew being Matthew, he doesn't believe them. Because Matthew is like, no, like you're not trustworthy, it just something doesn't make sense. There's no way you could have made this arrangement. So he doesn't believe him. But that's essentially where that scene ends. Did you have any thoughts there?
David Eckl 55:24
The image I have from that Matthew, collecting taxes right outside of it is the Roman guard. standing there like kind of just making sure everything's kind of going to order is yes, yeah. And guys is when he hears Andrew and Simon talk, he's like, something's not right with these guys. Something's up. So
Lance Foulis 55:41
it's kind of side looking like what's going on over there?
David Eckl 55:44
Yes. and Canada. He is Gaius is Matthews kind of guard to go take him around to places and they chose to create an interesting relationship over time, but like, Matthew is truly protected because of Gaius. But also in this scene, it's interesting to see like, where you pay taxes it's not like you know, they're taken out of your paycheck you know, you're surely going to this huddle, you
Lance Foulis 56:08
have to show up with your your funds in hand. Yes. And pay it stop what you're doing. No, you cannot go work during this time. You have to show up and you have to bring your taxes and if you don't do it, you're gonna be in a world of hurt. Yes.
David Eckl 56:20
Pay what to Caesar. What is Caesar's,