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Episode 23 - Career Re-evaluation 101 - with Shelby Smith

Shelby 00:00

I learned about myself that like with education that... you just realized you have no more coffee

correct was tea like looked into my mug and like yep, it's pure design on its face

Lance Foulis 00:14

true Hello everybody and welcome back to Lancelot's Roundtabe. It is getting very spring like

outside we are early March and we're getting our first little taste of spring, which probably

means that we're going to get a least one more bout of snow before we get into permanent

spring time. So I hope everyone's having a good day. Hope everybody's enjoying the sunshine,

wherever you are, if it's sun shining, when you listen to this, but thanks so much for listening.

I'm happy to welcome to the podcast, a really good friend of mine, Shelby Smith. Shelby,

welcome to the roundtable. Hi, thanks so much for having me. Absolutely, really thrilled that

you could come on. So why don't you tell the people a little bit about yourself? Yeah, so I'm 33

mom of one currently.

Shelby 01:13

Born and raised, Columbus went to o u in Athens and I have a Bachelors of Science in

communication studies, through right out of college went into HR and then marketing where I

met you. That's where are we met? That's where we met a couple years ago. Yeah, well, more

than a couple now. We'll go with a couple. And then when that really just wasn't the greatest

fit, I left the corporate sector and decided that I was better fit for the education side. So I have

been teaching for five years. It's my fifth year. So I'm about to end my fifth year and wild God

years already. It's crazy. And I have my masters now in education, curriculum and instruction

from Ashland University. I didn't know you went to Ashlyn. I mean, it was all online. But yeah,

that's your mom. Right? Hey, everybody, Kim's here.



Kim Foulis 02:09


Lance Foulis 02:11

She's walking around taking pictures and video. She does that. Hey, hey, everybody. Hey, so

um, yeah, so like we met at a company that I still work for you left? Correct. And you were one

of the people that was in the infamous row that we talked about on the episode with Natalie

Baldwin, Episode 19. Go listen to it. Oh, I didn't realize it was episode 19. Bob, good plug,

Marketing, Marketing and Communication Specialist right there runs through the just part of

the blood you can't get rid of it can't. So let's talk a little bit about those days. I remember

when I first started. I was coming from local bank. And I was really excited about this job

because it was an actual, like, professional type job. And I remember meeting you, you were 90

days, I believe, is that correct? I think so. Yeah, yeah, you're getting or you're getting close to

your 90th day because that was some type of a milestone. Yes. And I remember just being like

a deer in the headlights,

Shelby 03:09

like get like 90 days, I was still a deer in the headlights. Let's be honest,

Lance Foulis 03:12

it wasn't easy. Which I remember Natalie and I got into that very much. But I mean, looking

back at those memories, it was, here's your clients, here's what you're doing. And when I say

here's what you're doing, it's more like, here's where you'll be sitting in here's your computer.

Here's how you log in random binder of things that oh, you know, the binders, we had a lot of


Shelby 03:33

they did do a great job of pairing you up with a person who had your client before you

unfortunately for me, all of my clients went came from a person who was leaving.

Lance Foulis 03:46

Yeah, and that's what that's that's like the worst situation that you could be in in that role is the

person that used to support it is gone. Because there's, there wasn't a good knowledge sharing,

I guess that's the way I would put it. So like that person left with the knowledge of how to do

things. So lots of all of the nitty gritty details. For your day to day you just had to learn by

Shelby 04:09





Shelby 04:09

identifier? Well, I think a lot of it for me was learned by not doing and then realize I didn't do

and then having to do very, very quickly. Yeah. So that was a thing where like, vendors would

reach out and say, Hey, we normally have, you know, a program coming through or information

coming through for for this program are running, but we haven't seen it come through. Are we

still running that for you? Yeah, that's the only thing.

Lance Foulis 04:31

Like, that's literally like a third party and they're basically coming to your rescue. And they're

being very nice about it. But it's like, oh, yeah, you know, we typically would expect to get this

form by now. And we haven't done it but we know that you need the this material over here

and it's going to take some days for it to get there.

Shelby 04:48

Yeah, I think in the beginning, I had to call in a lot of favors for people I didn't even know yet.

Yeah. Can you run this for me in 24 hours? I promise you'll learn to love me.

Lance Foulis 04:57

Yeah. Oh my gosh, that's true, but you were really Good at your internal network. Oh, thank

you. Yeah, you were really good at that.

Shelby 05:05

I got the hang of it after a while. Yeah. And it just slowly after I kind of had the hang of it and

had been doing it for a while, started to realize it just was not what I was passionate about. It

was not what was what made me happy. It was not a good fit, I loved

Lance Foulis 05:20

who I worked with, it's always the people, it's always the

Shelby 05:23

people. And what I learned, and I did learn a ton from that position. Yep. And I'm very thankful

for that. But the biggest thing, I think I learned was the 8020 lesson, and that in your role, and I

try and pass this on to my students all the time, because I am High School. And for the last five

years, the constant for me has been seniors in high school. So I've taught a little bit of nine, a

little bit of 11 some electives, but the constant all five years has been that I have had at least

one one course of English 12. So all seniors and so one thing I try and pass on to them as

they're moving into that next phase of life is that they need to look for the 8020 You're never

gonna find 100% It's just not out there. Right? You're always gonna have some little bit that





you don't love to do. Yeah, I gave an example the other day, I could work with puppies all day

long. be fantastic. So much fun, just little puppies running around everywhere, but you're still

gonna have that like puppies have sharp teeth, or you know, they're not potty trained. Or

they're chewing on your shoelaces. And you know, your new Louis Vuitton bag is now covered

in slobber or did this happen to you? Know, this is just my own? Like, no, no, no. life

experience? Well, I mean, my dog did eat one of my purses. So that's cool.

Lance Foulis 06:36

Just not a Louis Vuitton. God loved Piper. Oh my gosh, I forgot about Piper.

Shelby 06:40

How's Piper She's good. She's getting gray.

Lance Foulis 06:42

How old is she? Oh,

Shelby 06:45


Lance Foulis 06:45

Cuz you you guys got her before you got married? Right?

Shelby 06:50

Yeah, I think she's eight or nine.

Lance Foulis 06:51

Okay, that's awesome. I'm glad to hear about Piper. I totally forgot about Piper. Yeah.

Shelby 06:56

Yeah, so I try and tell them they're still that that you know, a little bit that you don't love. Love

the puppies hate the slobber and the sharp teeth. And, you know, and so if you have 80% of

the job you absolutely love and 20% that you can deal with, then that's golden. If you can find

9010 That's like the rainbow. Yeah. out there. Yeah. And so for me, it was when I was at the





marketing position that I was in with you. It was the opposite. It was the 2080. Yeah. And the

20% were the people that I worked with. That was what I loved and what got me in every single

day. Yeah. But it was the 80% of the actual work I was doing was that 80% I hated? Yeah,

couldn't do it. And so in education, luckily, I have found the good positive 8020 Where it's 80%

of the job I love. And then there's 20%, where you have paperwork, and you know, grading

essays that maybe are not at the caliber, you would like them, or, you know, work

Lance Foulis 07:54

in progress, right. And you don't have to write anybody up. That's, that's also cool. So

Shelby 07:59

yes, it's very nice. Yeah, I mean, aside from like, sending home email saying, Yeah, I

Lance Foulis 08:03

literally thought about that, after I sent said that. And I'm like, Well, no, there's probably some

disciplinary issues. But high school, there's probably some discipline that needs to happen. So

let's talk a little bit about because I mean, from my perspective, you are so fresh out of college,

that it's I feel like for you is probably at least somewhat hard to know and get your bearings

around all that like now you can look back and be like, Yeah, I wasn't happy, I maybe I should

have made my move sooner. And maybe I didn't have to deal with all that stuff that I dealt

with. So do you think that's a consequence of Okay, everybody, thank you. Always fun when we

have these little like interesting cuts, but I had a phone call from my mechanic, and I needed to

take it because I need you to see how much the bad news was. So life happens. Life happens.

Exactly. Right. So what I was asking you Shelby was essentially, when you win, this was one of

your first jobs that you started, right? Yes. So I wanted to find out from you what your

perspective was on. I'm trying to remember how many years you were there before you left?

Was it like three, four? I was there like a little over four. So a little over four years. So you think

about I mean, that's when you're coming out of college things are just like in four year batches,

because high school before your batch College is a four year batch. So do you think that maybe

if you if it hadn't been your first job, you might have figured out quicker that it wasn't a good


Shelby 09:27

I think so. I think I had a lot of pressure on myself as well. Yes. Just to make it work. I had never

really experienced true failure at something and not not succeeding. Yeah, you know, and

Lance Foulis 09:44

that was hard every day was basically like on some level a struggle. Oh, to not lose my mind.

Yeah, yes, it is. And to be successful what we were doing Yes, yeah. Every day was like a battle

in that sense.



Shelby 09:57

Yeah. And this was before like I was there about Before all of the reorg started, right that the

multitude of reorg were at my tail end is when those reorg started happening. So, you know,

we kind of had all of those different deliverables that we had to do that were eventually kind of

pushed off to other people. And we had just a core group of deliverables.

Lance Foulis 10:21

Yeah, so to kind of describe that to people. So in our role, we were like, we were managing

marketing projects, which that that's kind of a very loose definition to get more nitty gritty into,

I think a better explanation is like, we were like the gatekeepers to a lot of different things. And

it was our job to work with so many different people across the organization to make sure

things happen. So we had to be subject matter experts across across a very wide variety of

things. So anyway, let's talk some more of just about like that experience for you. So every

single I mean, we were all in that like, right, every single day coming in, the challenges are

really high, the pressure is really high, you have a date that you pretty much have to meet, you

can't miss any of these dates. When you do you get to have Crucial Conversations. So check

mail date, hashtag mail dates. So talk, talk, just talk a little bit about maybe your journey of,

you know, four years you're doing this thing, the people are great. The job is the way that the

job is, how did you get to the point where you understood, this isn't for me, and to make that

courageous decision to?

Shelby 11:31

Yeah, so I think it's also really important to understand that that point in my life was also a very

big turning point into adulthood, you know, coming right out of college. When I took that job, I

was, you know, 23 Yeah. And so still, in retrospect, now, 10 years later. 23 is really young. You

know, when I when I was in that spot, I was like, you know, I'm gonna know what's ups. I'm

brown. I know what I'm doing. I got this. And in reality, that was not the case at all. But I was

handed a one I considered a good title with a good salary, you know, we were looking for Yeah,

we were well compensated. And yeah. You know, I felt like if I couldn't make this work, then I

was failing at life. Period. Yeah. Period. And because also, if you remember, a lot of the people

that I went to college with, also had jobs there. It was different department. It was

Lance Foulis 12:27

an Oh, you haven like people like we really came out. Oh, you and my Oh, my ammo of Ohio.

Those were like the two big ones. I think. I don't think we recruit that in the same way anymore.

But yes, back then. Yeah. No, you folks. Yes. Can you talk about the comparison factor? What

do you mean? So? You're see that's that's the thing. I don't I think that's really important to

notice. Or to note. You mean comparing yourself to the fact that yeah, you went to college and

most people now you're in the professional sector with a bunch of people and there's no end

right? There's no spring breaks. There's no the quarters over. So



Shelby 13:02

glad that you brought that up. Because that I've I realized about myself is I am a person who

works in increments in life in general. So I always knew that about myself in terms of like

working out, right. If I was going for a run, not a runner. I hate to write terrible. I don't know

how people do it or why you do it. Yeah, Harrison. Right. Eric, come on our friend

Lance Foulis 13:22

Aaron that we used to work with her and her husband loved to run. Do they run in like

blizzards? Yeah. And we would always scratch her heads at that a little bit. Anyway,

Shelby 13:30

I mean, they love it. And that's good. Love that journey for them. Not mine. Not my journey. But

when I go for a run, I always have to tell myself, Okay, I just need to make it from here to the

stop sign. Hmm. Right. And then I get to the stop sign like Okay, from here to the yellow car.

Yeah. Or one more block around the track. Yep. So I have to give myself these increments to

know that I have reached my goal. Yeah. And if it is a very short term goal. Yeah. And there

was no end in sight. Like you said, there was no end. It was just everyday rolling over. And your

end in sight was retirement like 35 years down the road. And that was a very dark hole to look

down for me.

Lance Foulis 14:06

Yeah, that oh, that's an abyss to look at. Yeah.

Shelby 14:09

So I learned about myself that, like with education that you just realized you have no more


Lance Foulis 14:16

correct? Well, I was tea, like looked into my mug and like, Yep, it's

Shelby 14:19

peered on its face. True. So I realized that in education, you have those increments, you know, I

have to make it from here until Christmas break and then I get you know, some time to

decompress. And then I need to make it from here to spring break and then spring break to the

summer and then I get to start all over again. I get to look back and say okay, this didn't work

last year. What did I like that worked? What did I like that didn't work? You know, what can I





tweak and then move forward? fresh, new faces, new people? Yeah. You know, new minds to

mold. Yeah, all that kind of stuff. So it is very increment driven in education. And that works for

me. Yeah. So At that point in time, there was no end in sight. And that was really hard for me to

kind of get through. And there was this constant comparison, which I also think is part of a

maturity thing. Yeah, I was in that, in that age where everyone else is doing it, everyone else is

winning, I have to do it and when to and so, and these are people that I was close to in college,

not just random people that went to the same university as me, but people that I spent time

with in college I was friends with. So there's that wanting to save face not wanting to, you

know, be the one who boughs out kind of situation,

Lance Foulis 15:35

which is really hard to your point at 23. Because you just you don't know what you don't know.

And it just would be so hard. Like, I mean, I can just I can totally just picture that see that in my

if that would if that had been my experience. Just Oh, everybody else seems to be doing great.

What's why? Why can't I? Why can't I? Right? And that being just a question in your face, right

would be exhausting? Yes.

Shelby 16:01

So I think also, like different teams were functioning differently 100% You know, depending on

who you had, in your upper levels, and who I had in my upper levels that were kind of helping

me manage really dictated my success. You know, Laura getting's was one of those people that

was super inspirational to me and very supportive for me and supportive of me during a time

that it was really difficult for me and so with her support, and guidance, I kind of made it

through a rough patch. Right. And that's when I was promoted to senior. Yep, at that point,

which was kind of the next Yeah,

Lance Foulis 16:40

cuz remember, there was so funny, you bring that up, and that instantly brings back memories

that you just brought up like the, the pressure, there was like, an unwell I don't want to even

say unspoken, but there was definitely a pressure to get to senior. And there was like a, like,

you kind of expected to be able to get there within a year, take a couple months. And if he had

didn't, it was kind of like why

Shelby 17:05

well and not to mention that when I first started everybody in program management had told

me and this was like a direct quote from multiple people. If you can make it in program

management for a year you can make it anywhere

Lance Foulis 17:15

that was like well known across the company.



Shelby 17:17

I mean in across other companies like they were basically like if you can make it at this

company here in this specific role, then you can do you know, you can conquer world peace.

Yes. I mean, that's that was a well known fact. So it was to add that added pressure and then to

know that it was something of a feat in itself. Yes, it just conquer the role. But yes, it was you

want to make it to senior you want to get the laptop.

Lance Foulis 17:44

We talked about that with Natalie's like that way back, then having a laptop was a definite

mark of success. For sure in there. Because there was there were a couple seniors I didn't even

remember that that did have laptops and basically meant that you were good to travel. Cuz you

remember back then we did. We didn't do traveling. Yeah, on site audits and reissues. We

would go to the processor and audit things. And that was a mark. Especially like the first time

that you did it. Like that was like, Oh, you've got your own merit badge now. Yep. Yeah.

Shelby 18:18

So yeah, with with some some good management in place, at that point in time, I was able to

kind of make it through, learn what I was doing, get my bearings, people that came in and saw

that things. The way that we had been doing them weren't working, and kind of making some

adjustments for us was huge. Yeah. Because I got one client, specifically. And Steve, do you

receive? Yes, yes. Yes. Yes. So Steve, was my manager at that point? That's right. For a very

short period of time, but he handed me this plan. And he said, This is going to be just, you

know, collateral maintenance is what he said, no big deal. You're just going to send in a

collateral order for new issues. Once a month, like no big deal. Yeah. And we had expected to

have 4000 new accounts that first month. And so we only bought enough collateral to issue you

know, four or 5000. Give or take, and we turned around the next month, and we had 40,000

new accounts. Yep. 10 times what we were supposed to have, and we had no collateral. Yep.

And it was like a four week turnaround for credit cards to be made, which is fast, right?

Lance Foulis 19:28

In today's terms, that's a very fast turnaround for was for it was usually like four to eight

weeks. Okay, I was gonna say that was my point. It got up to like, 12 Yes, there was a supply

chain issue and it got to like 12 to 14.

Shelby 19:41

Yeah, so that became a very stressful client. For me very, very quickly. And it was supposed to

be like my easy peasy.




Lance Foulis 19:48

Yeah. And then it just becomes this monster. And there's it's really hard to pivot. That's a fancy

fancy buzzword. It's, it's it's really hard to pivot because you're saying This client? Well, you can

try saying this client is actually really, really, really difficult. And but there's this history. No, it's

not. No, it's all all you have to do is just this little bit. I'm telling you, it's drowning me. Oh, you'll

be okay. Yeah.

Shelby 20:15

Yeah. So I mean, there were a lot of things that I think not necessarily were like already against

me, but things that made it a little bit more difficult for me to acclimate to the position itself.

When I first came in, you know, after about two years, I felt confident, okay, I know what I'm

doing. I can do this. And I think that's really when I started to find myself as a human being and

an adult. And you know, what I wanted I liked and I didn't like, that was when my husband and I

really started taking things a little bit further in our relationship. We got engaged. And it was

right before I decided to leave that role that we got married, right. And so God bless my

husband, he loves me so much. We got married. I locked it down. And then two days later, I

quit my job. I made sure I had that locked down.

Lance Foulis 21:13

Yeah. Yes, by the way, PS,

Shelby 21:17

I no longer have income. So I mean, that was a challenging time in life in itself. And I actually

stayed for three weeks after I give a you know, two weeks notice. But I stayed for three, three

weeks. And I really worked super, super hard during those three weeks. To pass Michael, the


Lance Foulis 21:36

Yeah, that was your book of business. Yeah, in a really good way, a really good way. You were

really, you were really focused on making sure that you set someone else up for success. Yes,

that was a big deal.

Shelby 21:48

It was a huge deal for me, because I knew what it was like to just be past something that was

nothing when you first started. And the clients that I was passing on, were ones that were

active every month with multiple programs, they were running, and very specific, intricate, you

know, idiosyncrasies that they wanted, specifically for that client. So I wanted to make sure




that whoever was getting those clients was prepared in what they do every month. And so I

worked really hard in those three weeks. And I remember the day that I left, you all walked me

out to my car, Natalie, you Erin, Jen, Ryan, all walked me out to my car, and I was sobbing.

Lance Foulis 22:28

Oh, it was it was hard. Because we were all so tight. As like we went makes me choke up now

thinking about it. You know, we went through like, because we all like struggled in all of our

ways that we struggled with all the clients that we were supporting. And we all like went

through growing pains together. We went we did lunches together, we we vented together, we

talked about how we were struggling in our we were close with each other like we would go

out, you know, you, myself and our significant others would all get together occasionally. And

like have a good time. Like we'd go that do happy hours. So it wasn't just like coworkers. It was

like we were friends. We were besties we were work besties Yeah. And so like, yeah, I

remember walking you out and like it felt like a shot to the gut. To all of us.

Shelby 23:12

It felt like a real, goodbye. Yeah. And you know, going from every day, okay, we're in this

together, at least I have these people to help me through to really be like, Okay, I'm on my

own. And I have no idea what I'm going to do next. And all of these people are not going to be

right there. Yeah, you know, a cubicle over.

Lance Foulis 23:32

So yeah, let's Well, I mean, let's talk about that. Because I don't even think I knew that you

didn't know that you were gonna go back to school at this point. Oh, no, it was like a clean

break. You just knew I knew this wasn't for me. Yeah. And you're in a huge life transition. You

just got married.

Shelby 23:46

Let's mention that. The week that I got married. I also bought a home. Oh, that's right. I signed

my mortgage. You know, which I've never gone

Lance Foulis 23:55

through a mortgage signing before. You don't you don't know the full extent to what you're

doing when you because it's a it's a giant book of things to sign.

Shelby 24:06

Oh, yeah. And you're signing your life away. I mean, it's basically saying we will take your life if

you don't give us our mortgage payment. Yes, exactly. Right. It's really scary as a first time

homeowner you always feel




homeowner you always feel

Lance Foulis 24:16

like I should have I should have like I should have secured myself a lawyer to go through these

documents with me.

Shelby 24:22

I am not smart enough to be looking at this by myself. So that's your first home buying

experience buying experience. We signed on one Friday and moved in that weekend and then

we got married on the following Friday. Oh my gosh. That's crazy. Which I don't recommend

anyone doing buying a home and planning a wedding at the same time. It was the worst it

Lance Foulis 24:42

self folks out there. Don't do that.

Shelby 24:45

Don't do it. Don't do it. Just

Lance Foulis 24:46

two separate times are your guyses wedding was really beautiful. We got to go to your to your

wedding. Erin was at my wedding. That's right here it was in your wedding. And we had our

second we were talking about this before we started recording Our second child, Connor. Boy,

he he had just been born. So I was holding in less than a month. Yes. I was holding him during

the whole ceremony. He was wearing a tuxedo onesie. Fair remember? Oh, wow, I never would

be able to remember that. That's, that's a mom memory. Yes, it is. Um, yeah. So that was fun.

Like, we had that wonderful memory. And then yeah, so So you literally went from job to no job

house responsibility. Marriage. Tell me about the transition.

Shelby 25:33

So it was really hard for me, because it was the first time that I had ever been without a job

since I was like 16 years old. And I grew up in a family where it was instilled in us Don't quit

your job until you have another job to fall back on. And so it felt like a really big failure that I

was leaving without anything to fall back on. Geez. And so it was really hard. And I admittedly, I

spent a couple of weeks, maybe months on my couch, just kind of wallowing. Yeah, my

sorrows. Trying to figure out if I didn't like this, what would I like, and I applied for a lot of jobs

that were very similar to what I was doing beforehand. And I kept having these conversations




with my husband and with my sisters and my friends, like, why are you applying for jobs that

are the same as what you were doing before? If you didn't like that, then we need to find

something different. So

Lance Foulis 26:24

how would you answer that question?

Shelby 26:26

So I couldn't answer that question. I don't know. That was my answer. I don't I don't know why I

keep applying for these jobs. Yeah, you know, it's the exact same job I was doing before. But

that's what I felt like I was qualified to do. Yeah, with a Communication Studies degree. And

then this experience, this is what I felt I fit into cookie cutter wise. So I decided that in the

interim, when I was trying to figure out, okay, I'm not gonna apply for any more of these jobs,

because clearly, I don't like it. And it's not a fit for me, but I need to figure out what I'm doing.

And I need to make some money in the process. My mom, who has been in the education field

for now, 25 years, had said, you have a bachelor's degree, come and substitute teach, while

you're trying to figure it out. It's a daily, you know, paycheck, your daily, you know, pay, it's

easy, you can, you know, you can do it. Yeah. And then you can have time to figure out what

your what your what you want to do. And so, I started doing that. And honestly, when I was

going into college, I had thought, I really like education. And every aptitude test I took in high

school said, you know, teaching was one of those Yep. On the list. Yep. And I did Junior

Achievement. When I was working at our organization. Do you remember that at all? So it was a

business class, essentially, that you went into different middle schools. And you taught once a

week, a class to like sixth and seventh grade, you

Lance Foulis 27:53

did that while you were at the company? I didn't, I don't remember that.

Shelby 27:56

Yeah. And I loved it. I taught at New Albany Middle School. And one other one, and I could see

escaping me right now. But you taught them about credit. And you know, all these different,

you know, economics, just basic and reporting for kids to learn about, they gave you a

curriculum, it was the Junior Achievement curriculum. And you just went in and taught the pre

planned lessons, but I loved it. And then I started substitute teaching, and I fell in love with it all

over again. And I thought to myself, if I love being in a different classroom, that's not my own.

With new kids, every day, then I would really love to have my own space with kids that I could

really build a relationship with. Yeah. And that's what I loved about it, you know, was building

the relationship with the kids and joking around with them and, you know, all that kind of stuff.

So I tried the elementary school. I subbed in elementary for like, a day. No, this is not for me.

The Little People are not my forte. Did you



Lance Foulis 28:59

substitute in in elementary, okay. Yeah, I

Shelby 29:03

served a couple days in elementary and it was just not not where it was at for my kid. I would

have a hard time too. Yeah. Love my own little person. Mm hmm. And, you know, other people I

do love children, maybe in smaller Yes.

Lance Foulis 29:18

groupings. You know,

Shelby 29:19

I just don't do the whole like Tommy's touching me and snotty nose and, you know, hold hands

while we take a potty break. And that just was not where my Yeah, my groove was, yeah,

you're Yes, my age. And then I tried middle school, and I was like, Okay, this is a little better. I

like this, but they're very, like, emotional. You know, one kid had made fun of another kid and

said that the other kid thought that I was cute. And embarrass him and he started crying. And

then I felt like I don't know what to do. Because if I let go over and I console him that it just

makes it worse, right? Don't and I feel very cold hearted. So it's just very awkward situation for

me. Yeah. And then I found high school and I was like, these are my people. Yeah, they got my

humor, I could tell them to just go away for a minute when I needed a second.

Lance Foulis 30:07

And this is still just you're substituting stuff, just figuring

Shelby 30:10

it out. Wow. And so then I started looking into programs of how I could get my teaching license.

And that's when I found Ashland University's bachelor Plus program. And they worked with me

in the classes that I had for my undergrad. Because, again, while I was an undergrad, I took a

lot of education electives, because it was something that I was interested in interesting. And I

really felt like, and I think I've told you this before. I feel like looking back when I was in the

corporate role, there were different points throughout. Where God kept saying to me, you're on

the wrong path. You're on the wrong road, you need to turn right. Mm hmm. And there were

different points, where it would be very, very clear, like you need to turn and I would just say,

Nope, I got to make this work. I started on this road. This is the road we're taking. There are no

alternates. Yeah. And then eventually it got to a point where he just put a dead end. Yeah. And

he was like, Nope, you only go right. Yeah. And so then when I turned right, the road was a lot

less bumpy and a lot more enjoyable. And it was really hard. Because when I started going to

school, back to school, I was substitute teaching full time, so five days a week. And then I




decided I was going to coach cheerleading. Oh, that's right. I kind of remember that. Yeah. So I

was coaching some of the kids that I was subbing because I was a long term sub. And I was

also working at roosters at that time, I was waitressing

Lance Foulis 31:44

back to do, because you had done that I asked life. Yeah.

Shelby 31:48

So I went back just because it was extra money. And you know, I had a new mortgage and all

that kind of stuff. So I was working effectively like three jobs. Yeah. And then going to school

full time for a year and a half. So it was a grind for sure.

Lance Foulis 32:01

When did you go to classes.

Shelby 32:03

So it was a lot of like, very self paced. But it was all online. And so I would kind of get the

syllabus and it would say these things are due, you know, this week, you need to read this. And

then this paper is due on Sunday, and you have a discussion board post and two responses

kind of thing. So nights, weekends when I wasn't at a game or at a at a practice. Yeah, that was

when I was doing the work.

Lance Foulis 32:32

So what did it feel like? Did you feel like motivated? Did you just get into a little like a groove

and just head down?

Shelby 32:38

Yeah, I mean, I think I saw the end, I saw what I could have at the end. And that was really

inspiring to me plus what I was learning, I really loved. Yeah. So

Lance Foulis 32:48

that was that was you were you were like really enjoying the content of the classes that you

were taking?

Shelby 32:53





Shelby 32:53

Yeah, because I didn't I had so many credit hours for my undergrad in English. Yeah, I didn't

really have to take a ton of English classes, more of it was, you know, my methods and

instructional, like the pedagogy type classes that I had to take. So I was really learning what

that word mean. I was learning how

Lance Foulis 33:10

to while you were talking, I was searching my brain. And then I realized nope, I'm not going to

find it rotary have Yeah.

Shelby 33:16

So basically, the the method of teaching, okay. I was, I was learning how to teach not

necessarily what to teach, but but how to go about it, different protocols, that we use activities

that you can do with the kids to get to a deeper level of learning, and you know, those types of

things. So creating lesson plans, and what goes into that, and what is a 504 plan versus an IEP

plan and, you know, different things that you need to know on the day to day when you're in

the classroom. Yeah, I will say the best preparation for having my own classroom was being in

classrooms as a substitute teacher that I couldn't get in a classroom on my own. It's just the

experience of being with kids. Yep. So I mean, learning classroom management was huge for


Lance Foulis 34:08

tell me more about classroom management,

Shelby 34:11

you know, creating an environment where you are the authority of the classroom, but then you

also are creating an environment where students can lead their own learning. Hmm. So I am

kind of the facilitator. Yeah, but I'm also the authority of what happens in this classroom. So I

am responsible and liable for all of the 30 bodies in my classroom right now. And I have to be

able to assert myself as that authority in that classroom. And so effectively managing the

behavior of my students Yeah, is something that some teachers struggle with. It's something

that some teachers come into naturally. And every year it changes and every class period that

changes my methods for every class change, because it's a different set of students. Yeah, and

it can change if a couple of students are absent that day, or you know, I Get students that I

have to watch for another teacher who's out that day, right? I have to cover a class for another

teacher. And so I get additional students in. So you have to be constantly willing to adjust

based on what's going on in your classroom. Got it. And not every day is me sitting in front of

students and lecturing to them. And they're just silently taking notes, right? It's you're doing

gallery walks in your classroom, and you're doing interactive activities, where they're talking to

each other, or, you know, doing group work or reading aloud. And so being able to manage

their behavior along with instilling the content, and developing the content is its own separate





Lance Foulis 35:42

no doubt, no doubt. So when you're substitute teaching, are you only doing certain subjects?

Shelby 35:48

No, I was in I was in every subject. Most of the time, though, it was they already knew what

they were doing. Okay. And I was just kind of there to manage, collect everything they were

doing since you know, I wasn't really responsible for teaching content, especially in high school.

More. So in elementary, you might be like going through specific activities with them. Yeah. But

it was kind of pass out a worksheet, you know, now when I'm out and I have a sub in my

classroom, everything's electronic. So I say check the agenda on Google Classroom, or

whatever platform we're using. And so for my notes for the substitute, you know, their agendas

are on the virtual platform, have them check in and everything is hyperlinked to the documents

that can turn it in electronically. So they just have to kind of like sit there and watch the kids

make sure that they're not murdering each other.

Lance Foulis 36:40

So that's fair, when you were going to school, did you figure out what you wanted to teach?

Shelby 36:45

I always knew I wanted English. Okay, you always

Lance Foulis 36:48

knew from from day one, but I did have to decide what

Shelby 36:51

level and I chose seven through 12. Because that was where my niche was my niche, your

niche? was?

Lance Foulis 37:00

Was it? Well, we can get into that in a second. That's, that's a later question. I want to know. So

I'm, I'm just picturing you. You're newly married, which is his own challenge you have you still

have responsibilities, house payments, and everything else. Tell me about how the relationship

stuff worked out? Like how did your new marriage? How was it during this time? How




Shelby 37:20

did it survive? Yeah. A lot of grace, I will say, for my husband, a lot of understanding that, you

know, I Yes, had quit my job and put us in a financial, more of a financial burden situation. But I

think he really saw and understood that I was trying my best to contribute as much as I could,

to our financial goals and our financial situation. So he was very understanding provided a lot of

opportunity for me when he could to have kind of space to get my stuff done. And kind of he

took on a lot more than I was able to at that point in time. So I have to give a lot of credit to, to

my husband, I had amazing support from my family and my friends, whenever I kind of needed

something. You know, but it was really just time management. And oh, yeah, it was just a grind.

So he understood that was very supportive. Yeah, throughout that whole thing, but it was hard.

I mean, we had to make some financial choices. And looking back, we both say that it was only

by the grace of God that we were able, you know, to make it and for some reason, we never, it

never got to a point where we couldn't pay a bill, which was very strange, because, you know, I

was making a good salary that I

Lance Foulis 38:42

just left that you it's not a it's, it's the type of salary that's not easy to replace, right? It's not,

Shelby 38:47

it's not easy to walk away from. So, you know, I cut our income pretty much in half. And

somehow, we got through, we got we got through the period, whether I mean, there were some

things that were divine in those in those months, like, you know, we would get a refund check

for something that happened to be very similar to a random bill or an increase in our water bill

that we weren't expecting. And oh, yeah, those things that we couldn't really account for. But,

you know, my husband and I are Christians. And so we attribute that to, you know, just God

looking out and yeah, and being a part of our lives and yeah, and that kind of stuff. So, it was

hard. Yep. But I think it actually helped us in our marriage. Major, stronger. We Yeah, we got a

lot closer. We learned how to manage things together.

Lance Foulis 39:41

Yeah. So Yeah. When did when did your daughter come? Come into the picture?

Shelby 39:47

So she came in, I got my job with my current district. And then at the end of that first year of

teaching, I found out I was pregnant with my daughter got it. And then I delivered her the

beginning of my second year teaching. So I always laugh and like joke with my colleagues

about how I've never had a full actual, like normal year of teaching because my first year, I had

some wonky stuff going on at the beginning. And then I had, I had gotten pregnant with my

daughter, and I was super sick all the time. You know, from February until May, which was the

very end of that year. And then the second year, I was out for 12 weeks on maternity leave, I




was like waddling around like a penguin, you know, for the first couple of months of school. And

then I was out for a while. So that wasn't really a normal year. And then my third year, in

March, everything shut down.

Lance Foulis 40:44

Yeah. So shut down. COVID. Yeah,

Shelby 40:48

yeah. So my first year was the 1718. school year. My second year was the 18 19/3. year when I

had come back from having my daughter was I was like a skinny, my first normal year, right. I

got it together. I know what I'm doing. I know what to expect. And then March happened, and it

was like, Okay, we're going on spring break. And then it was like, just kidding. We're getting an

extra week of spring break, who? And then it was like, Can we come back in? Yeah, we have to

still have to be inside. Oh, God don't have to be inside. That sounds awful. And so then we

started teaching the rest of the year, virtually, yeah. From Home, which was hard in itself. We

were living with my parents at that point, because we had decided to sell our home and build a

house. And so, you know, teaching from home with my toddler and my parents all in one house.

Yeah. And my mom is education as well. She was home all day every day.

Lance Foulis 41:42

Your mom's at the same school? No, no. What does she teach?

Shelby 41:45

She's actually the principal secretary. Oh, yeah. So like run stuff. Anybody who's education

knows that? Like the secretaries run stuff?

Lance Foulis 41:54

Okay. Got it. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. And she, she did that your whole life? Okay. Yeah. So

you I mean, you had like a window into education during this whole time. So that makes sense.

So, yeah, I mean, I'm just fascinated by well, okay, so I'm back up, we had a really hard year in

2019. And it is miraculous that we made it out of that time. And then the aftermath of that,

trying to pick up the pieces of that 2019 year, Kim's house got really bad. And during that year,

and then, and then there was a lot of financial impact that happened on the back end of that.

So it is really amazing. The support that we had, and however, we made it through that as

definitely divine, because we shouldn't have made it through that. So it's really fascinating.

When you think about the hard times that you walk through, that you go through, you really

need to look and see where you're being protected. And where. Yeah, that it could be it could

be worse.



Shelby 43:00

Yeah. Where that grace is being extended? Yes. Yeah.

Lance Foulis 43:02

Yeah. So tell me more about? Yeah, just the adjustment.

Shelby 43:07

So then my, my so my third year, we, you know, back half of that year, March to May was all

virtual, and then we started the year, you know, 2020, all virtual. So go, you know, started that

year at my parents house, moved into our new house in November was still all virtual. When I

was supposed to come back to school after kind of the work going back, hybrid learning, hybrid

learning. My husband got COVID. And so I was home for 14 days, again, still working from

home. So it was like, Yes, I get to go back to work. No, I don't. So that was a hard blow. But

then that fourth year of teaching, so my last year of teaching was a hybrid. So I had a handful

or more of kids in my classroom. And then I had the rest of them virtually on Zoom. So I had my

classroom setup kind of flipped backwards, I had a big, what are called clever touch, or Smart

Touch boards in the back. And I would have, it was like a giant computer screen essentially, is

what it is. And so I would have my kids on Zoom, pulled up. And I had my desks for my students

turn to the back of the room. And by camera at the very back of the room. So I could see my

kids on Zoom and my kids in front of me at the same time. Oh my god. So having to manage

working with students virtually online, manage like a chat room that's going on on Zoom. And

then Manage students in the classroom and trying to give one on one attention to those

students in both realms. was incredibly difficult. And there were a lot of districts that even went

on strike because they were like, This is not manageable.

Lance Foulis 44:47

Right. The teacher sounds like you're doing three jobs. At the same time.

Shelby 44:50

It was really really hard to do both and but we gave you know, we had to give the kids the

option. They have to get an education and a lot of people it's they still weren't comfortable

coming back into the building. Yeah. And then to do all of that fully masked right now. And it

was it was,

Lance Foulis 45:09

you guys have the most challenging conditions between people

Shelby 45:12





Shelby 45:12

know, they had to be every other desk. Sure, at least. And, you know, maintaining six feet, all

that kind of stuff. So it was really, really difficult. It was hard, it was hard for the kids, it was

hard for us

Lance Foulis 45:27

what's really gonna say what have you? What do you feel like you've noticed the psychological

impact on that age group going through COVID.

Shelby 45:35

It's significant, the psychological and educational. So part of it was that I taught to black

screens 90% of the time, because they would not turn their camera on. It was hard. You know, I

would just see their little name. So there were kids that came back to school this year. And

they're like, Hey, Miss Smith.

Lance Foulis 45:54

You're like, I don't know who you are, who you are.

Shelby 45:57

I am so and so. And I'm like, oh, that's what you look like. Wow. So I mean, it was crazy. Them

coming back this year, and, and getting to see who they are. But I couldn't tell if they were

asleep. Yeah, you know, I would have to yell their name a couple of times before they might

respond in the chat.

Lance Foulis 46:13

Yeah. But oh, in the chat, so not even in microphone very rarely.

Shelby 46:18

Very rarely would they?

Lance Foulis 46:20

Just that just sounds like morale in the gutter.

Shelby 46:23

Mm hmm. It was it was. It was really hard for them. Because it's a lot of a lot of self






Mm hmm. It was it was. It was really hard for them. Because it's a lot of a lot of self

management and personal responsibility that they have to take and waking themselves up and

getting themselves to their zoom class and, you know, not having their favorite Netflix show or,

you know, there would kids be kids that I could hear when they would unmute themselves

every once in a while I would hear their video games and the clickety clack. No.

Lance Foulis 46:52

It actually hear the audio of the video game. Yeah. Would you would you hear the the the

controller noises?

Shelby 46:57

Yep. Oh, wow. Yep. And then I would have kids that were really funny. And they would say, I'll

be right back. I'm gonna go cook some eggs.

Lance Foulis 47:04

Well, hot in the middle of class, middle class. No, I just I mean, like, I can't picture. It's been a

long time since I've been in high school. I can't. And I was homeschooled. So it was a you had

to do things like on your own, like self initiative and everything. But I, I can't imagine just being

told Yeah, you're not allowed to come back to school, and then being home every day,

especially if you're like in your room or something. So then you spend the whole night in your

room, then you spend the whole day going to school in your room. And then,

Shelby 47:35

so I really tried tried to encourage my students to find a different place in their house. That

wasn't their bed. Yeah. Because when I am in my bed, I want to nap. Yes. Like, my bed is for

sleeping. Yes. So a lot of them have that same mentality. So they would wake up at eight

o'clock in the morning and join my class, and then I would hear them snoring. Oh, my God, they

just wouldn't be there. Yeah, at all. Yeah. Or it would come the end of class. And it would be

time for them to switch and login to their next class. And they would still be lingering on my

screen because they were asleep and hadn't so then I would have to like, kick them off. Yeah.

So it was really hard. It was hard for us to encourage the kids and to inspire the kids and to

keep, you know, on track with them. But there was this, like, social emotional drainage that

happened with them, it just they need to be with each other. They need that social aspect, that

interaction, right, and they weren't getting it. And it was really, really hard. So we came in this

year, knowing that we had a deficit of learning to fill, no doubt early on.

Lance Foulis 48:37

So like, what's the situation now in the schools? Are you still like is it still hybrid is it still masks.



Shelby 48:45

So at the beginning of the year, we gave students an option to do a Virtual Academy, which

was essentially they would be all online, but that would be managed by a separate group. So I

was only responsible for the kids that were in my classroom got it. However, if there were kids

who weren't doing what they were supposed to and keeping up and you know, after the first

quarter, they were failing, that kind of stuff, then they were removed from the virtual option

and brought back into the building. Got it. So we don't have very many, if any, that are still in

that virtual option. I mean, it's a very small percentage, a lot smaller than it was at the

beginning of the year. Got it. And so we've had full class, full class sizes. And then just this past

week, we removed the mask mandate, which I'm actually surprised. Yeah, I'm surprised that

the number of kids who are still wearing masks, I'm also surprised at the number of kids who

are wearing masks like as a chin strap.

Lance Foulis 49:42

Yeah, right.

Shelby 49:43

It's like, like, what's the point of that? There's just no point. They're like, well, it's in case

somebody like starts coughing. It's already too late dude.

Lance Foulis 49:49

So is it is it is it a yes. Is it a situation where they're not mandated anymore? But the kids are

still concerned. And or maybe the family answer could be probably both. It just depends. Yeah.

Shelby 50:04

I think it's interesting. The ones who just like wear it, you know, as an accent, accessory now?

Lance Foulis 50:11

Well, I mean, I'm, I'm curious about that too, because at this point, you have people that have

been doing it for two years at the age levels that they've been doing it and like it. How much

has the mask? And things like the mask social distancing just become a part of right. And


Shelby 50:29

well, I have found during the day, right or doing it when I went the first day that we went

without mask, which was I think, last Monday, kids started coming in my room, and I

immediately thought, oh, my gosh, where's my mask? You know? Yeah. Oh, my gosh. And then





I thought, Oh, I don't have to have it. Yeah. And so there, you know, it was it's mental. And still,

I mean, a week later, I'm still like, like,

Lance Foulis 50:51

a type of conditioning that almost. Yeah, so even now, like a week later, like, it's still thought

you'll Oh, wait. Oh, no. Yeah. Oh, gosh, yeah. I just said. I mean, I'm just I'm just picturing it. I

can't imagine being 17 years old and like,

Shelby 51:09

wearing a mask be what your learning experience has been for the last two years?

Lance Foulis 51:13

Or, I mean, I feel real bad. I think my niece was in this one of my nieces was in this boat senior

year is when it all went down. No graduation.

Shelby 51:20

Nope. No prom. No prom. Yeah, that means something. That class of 2020. Really, really took it

hard. Yeah. And I had a lot of students that were, you know, crying to me on during classes.

This isn't fair. Why did this have to happen to us?

Lance Foulis 51:39

Yeah, like that's, I mean, how could you not think that like every class before us has been able

to do everything in now my class doesn't? For some people, that's a really significant deal. Oh,


Shelby 51:50

Because we did have a virtual graduation that they could attend. It was like a drive thru. So

there, you couldn't have anybody there. But you could show up. You grabbed your diploma. You

took a picture and it was all live streamed. Yeah, your family could watch you walk across the

fake stage.

Lance Foulis 52:05

You have this idea of what this event is going to be like, and you earned it. Like you spent four

years doing work and there I can just picture like certain kids that I knew that did really good in

school, and that was like they worked at it. Oh, yeah. And they got good grades and everything.

It's like I I did it I accomplished it. I'm going to go walk armor. I always homeschooled so I didn't




do this whole walking thing. But all my friends went to Dublin sewed or Kilburn. So I went to all

their stuff. And I just remember like, good gracious Dublin site. I think it was like four hours of

listening the name calls to get through the whole class, something like that. But yeah, there's

just this, this thing about i i conquered this thing. Yeah. It's a huge accomplishment. Yes.

Making it through high school. And then and then No, you don't graduate, even parties, right

graduation parties. That was a huge event back in the day when you go to all your friends


Shelby 53:00

that point. I mean, you it was mandated that you could have not have more than 10 people in

the same time. So no

Lance Foulis 53:06

graduation party. It's so that's so I'm, I'm I've said this on a few different podcasts. We've been

talking about this kind of stuff. But I'm really curious because I don't think we know the total

social impact or anything like that, for the generation that went through this, whether it's high

school or college, like just younger people in general elementary school, like what is the

impact? Because two years is a long time very long time at that age. So. So anyway, how much

now that the mask mandate is gone? Do you feel like what percentage normal does it feel to


Shelby 53:41

It feels like we're on our way back to a normal. I feels like the whole year that we've been

slowly working our way back to what we used to consider normal. You know, there are new

things in place now that are the new normal. But even that, like the new normal was like back

in school, but with masks, so the oddball out was the person that like didn't have their mask on

in the hallway. And then I would be asking, Hey, do you have mask? Mm hmm. And they go,

yeah, it's right here. And they like put it on lately. And me, I'm always, always the bearer of bad

news. You have to be transcon. Yeah, it's terrible. You're gonna have to learn to say I have to

play math. Yeah. So even you know, that shift now has kind of thrown a wrench in things where

we're just kind of like I tried. I'm catching myself not telling students. Do you have a math

course this right. It's crazy. Wild, but it is it's becoming a new normal. And, you know, getting

back to some semblance of what we were before and that's really refreshing. I think, for a lot of

our students. Oh, yeah.

Lance Foulis 54:42

When's graduation this year? This year? It's the end of May into May. Okay. All right. Yeah. So

Shelby 54:47

last year, we had it but it was outside. It was beautiful day. I think people felt a lot more

comfortable being outside versus being in a confined space. So that was really nice. You




comfortable being outside versus being in a confined space. So that was really nice. You

Lance Foulis 55:01

Okay, last couple questions here. I would love to know if you could sit down with your 23 year

old self that's been working where we worked for a year, what advice would you give yourself?

Because there's not gonna be you know, there's people in your position, or years to school four

or five years to school to study a thing, they got the job to realize it's not what they want to do.

Yes. What would you say to yourself?

Shelby 55:26

I would say, first of all, I would tell myself, it's okay. Hmm. It's okay, that you're not, you're not

good at this thing. Or it's okay, that this isn't what's working out for you. That's okay. Because I

think for me, it was really hard to get to that point to know that it was it was alright. And it

would be okay. Yeah. One, I would say that there is something out there that you are meant

for, you know, that is better suited for you. And it's not, there's no point in being miserable. Oh,

gosh, you know, what I've learned is that life is supposed to be happy. And if it's not, then there

are things that can change to make it happier for you. And so it takes a lot of personal

reflection, and taking a deep look inward to see what is the problem? Is it the job? Is it me? Is it

you know, who I'm with? romantically? Is it, you know, that I'm allowing toxic people to be a

part of my life? What is the problem? And whatever that is, it can be fixed. You know, I think a

refreshing thought for me when I was in that role was I had to remind myself, this isn't the end

of the world. Yeah, you know, and a lot of times in those roles because there was a lot of

money riding on some of the programs we were working on and some of the clients that we

were working with, it felt like it was the end of the world

Lance Foulis 56:54

felt like you were executing brain surgery on some really make it and then you're like, nope,

Shelby 57:00

right. So what I will tell you, I mean, if you are a brain surgeon or a you know cardiothoracic

surgeon then yes, it is a life or death situation. In my role. It was not it was a making it out to

be and so I needed to realize that it's a job. Yeah. And life should be so much more than a job.

Now as an educator, that's a huge part of my life, and a huge part of my life that I love.

Because I love working with my kids. I love building relationships with them. I love having one

on one talks where they can come to me and and cry or laugh or joke around or you know, I

used to dance down the aisle ways that at our building and I dance in my classroom just about

every day I will put on 90s music and we will jam out why we're doing essay revision.

Lance Foulis 57:47

What's your favorite song to do this to? Oh,



Shelby 57:49

I mean anything Whitney Houston 90s r&b? Can anybody

Lance Foulis 57:56

give me an example of 90s? r&b That's not my genre.

Shelby 57:59

Why? Oh, it's not what? I don't know. You guys metal

Lance Foulis 58:03

was my John. Oh, dear.

Shelby 58:06

That's what eyes. Yeah, I mean, you have Whitney Houston, Mariah Carey.

Lance Foulis 58:14

Oh, Mariah Carey. Got it.

Shelby 58:16

You got Bell Biv DeVoe. You got color me badd? All for one? Boys to Men? Shout out to boys. To

me. It looks like you too. Oh, yeah. You know, I had a couple. But like 90s, early 2000s was

yeah, my general feeling. Yes. So my kids are always trying to get me like up on the latest law?

Or does something. You know, they're like, Have you heard of the baby? And I'm like, Who?

Lance Foulis 58:42

Now? Is this on a compact disk to still have a CD collection?

Shelby 58:45

No, this is like Pandora or Spotify. So yeah, but all jam out my classroom to my kids and just

creating a space where we can have fun. And I like to take what I've learned in terms of how I

consider what I that I didn't make it or couldn't make it work at my corporate job. Yeah, I like to,






I'm very open with my students about that. And that it's okay to fail as long as you try to fail

forward. Yeah, so that's a big buzzword in my classroom is that we try and fail forward, you

may have failed this essay. But let's look at how we can revise it to make it better. Or let's take

what we've learned from this and move it to the next. The next thing, you're not always gonna

get a win at everything. Even those people who look like they're winning all the time, because

they failed a lot. It's because they failed a lot. Yeah. Or they're failing and they're just not

highlighting that on Instagram. Yeah, absolutely. You know, this day and social media,

everything is, you know, I get to pick and choose what I want people to see. And that can be

very deceiving. Yes, and dangerous and dangerous. So you know, making sure that they

understand that everyone has pitfalls. And it's what you do with that. That's most important.

How do you fail forward? How do you move on from this to make yourself better?

Lance Foulis 59:56

And I love that. Yeah, I mean, the Falling failing forward. That's so key, I always such a, I can't

fail. I've got a, I've got to get this thing done. It's like what you're describing is a lot of like what

I went through when I was in aviation school at at OSU when it came to the point where I wasn't

going to do it anymore. And I knew it was incredibly devastating. And I did not go through

probably the next 10 years very gracefully. Because I that was my identity up to that point.


Shelby 1:00:26

I actually used you as an example in my class the other day, you did I did, we were talking

about, you know, picking colleges and under, you know, figuring out what you wanted to do if

college was the right thing, or what major it was it you know, all that kind of stuff. And students

were asking me questions like, well, if I go in as a business major, but I decide that's not what I

want to do. Do I have to stick with that? No, right? We talked about all those things. This is your

time to figure it out. And I said, that doesn't end after college. Right. So I said for me, you know,

I worked five years in a genre or a thank you, industry that I wasn't cut out for. And it took me

five years to figure out this is not where I belong. And then I figured it out. And I'm so much

happier. And you're okay. And I'm okay. And I said and you know, I have this friend that I

worked with in marketing, and he went to school for aviation. And yeah, I said, and then, you

know, I'm pretty sure right about the time you graduated, was 2000 1am i 911. Yeah, it was

Lance Foulis 1:01:23

that was so I 11 happened probably a year before I went into flight school. Okay, so I was all

like, I can still do this. I'll be fine. It'll be it'll be fine. We'll bounce back. I can go into debt for

aviation. I'm going to be a pilot. Yeah, matter what,

Shelby 1:01:39

right? Oh, well, it'll all work out. Oh, I didn't know. And that's okay.



Lance Foulis 1:01:46

And boy, did I need somebody like you to be like, it's okay. Here's how you can fail for x. I didn't


Shelby 1:01:53

well. And I said what we had people who were in our wasn't Starla like a English major or

something. Did she? I didn't know what she did. I want to say somebody else in that row was

like English education or just like an English major. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And was working in

marketing, you know? Yeah. So I said, just because you picked a path. Right now, when you're

2122 years old, and you have no idea what you want in life. Yeah. Doesn't mean that's what

you have to stick towards. So you were one of my examples as well. That's

Lance Foulis 1:02:22

awesome. I'm glad I could be and we saw how successful you are. Oh, thank you. I kind of Yes, I

made it. Appreciate that. I did i Well, I think it's more about that Providence thing that we were

talking about. Somehow, the path ended up working out. And it wasn't by my design. It was

definitely by, in my opinion, God's design, because I shouldn't be where I am right now. There's

so many things that should have taken me out. It should have taken us out. But it didn't. Yeah,

we. And we made it and we're here. And that's so much to be thankful for. Okay, last question.

What would you say to, again? Well, an adult who's in the situation? And they're like, Yeah,

that's me. I'm doing a thing. I'm not happy. I can remember when I was a teller at a bank. In

college, there was a lady who came through who talked to me about her husband, who was a

CPA. And it was tax time. It was like January or February, and she just like, Oh, he's this is his

least favorite time of year. And me being a college student didn't know anything. I'm like, oh,

causal winter. He doesn't like winter. She's like, No, it's like tax time. And I didn't get it. And so

she like explains

Shelby 1:03:30

that as a CPA, you would want that to be like your favorite time.

Lance Foulis 1:03:34

Yes. But he hated being a tax person. He hated taxes. And he hated. He hated the profession.

But she made a statement because she was older. So I knew that he clearly was been doing

this for several years. He's only got five years until he retires. So he literally did what you

described that you didn't do he just stay kept going, kept going. And every single beginning of

the year, probably just borderline serious depression, hated life. I can't imagine doing that. So

talk, because there is there is you mentioned a couple things. So like the looking inward, and

being like, just looking at that mess, it feels like a nest at that point. And then taking that

journey to now I know what I want to do. This is what I'm really passionate about. So how would

you advise somebody that's in a situation of looking at their nest, they don't know what the

passion is yet, but how to maybe just navigate through that.



Shelby 1:04:35

I would say, start trying things, whether it's like trying it as a hobby first, or, you know, Hey,

this looks really fun. Or, you know, a person who's very similar to me is is doing this and really

loves it. Let me go see what it's about. You know, we all have days off. We all have weekends.

You know, whether you work in the evenings or work in the daytime, you have some time in

between we're not working 24 hours a day. seven days a week, right? Take that time to do

some research and try some new things. And, you know, if you are a person that's like, I'm

stuck in the screw and I five years, I'm just gonna stick it out. Good for you. Good for you that

you're gonna stick it out for those five years, what I would suggest is finding something to

offset that misery in your job, right where to put that. So find a hobby, find something that

you're interested in, you know, whatever that is for you. Find something that's that's offsetting

it, and make it that your job is the 20% of your life. So instead of looking at the 8020, in terms

of the full job, look at 8020 in terms of your life, yeah, 80% of my life I love and I do the things

that I love, and I'm engaged in the things that I love. And then yeah, 20% of the time, I have to

go to work.

Lance Foulis 1:05:44

Yeah. And you're okay. And you're okay. Yeah, that's good, shall we? I can't thank you enough

for coming on.

Shelby 1:05:50

Thanks for having me. Absolutely. I

Lance Foulis 1:05:51

hope we get to do it again soon. Yeah, definitely.

Shelby 1:05:53

Alright, folks, we're happy hours.

Lance Foulis 1:05:56

Yeah. More happier. Happy hour right now.

Shelby 1:05:59

230. So it's a little early, but we could we'll make

Lance Foulis 1:06:02

it worse. It's a Saturday we can make it work. That's awesome. All right, everybody. Thanks so

much for listening. We'll see you next time.

Lance is a blogger and podcaster encouraging others to be a listener and a learning in the things we don't yet know about.
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