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Episode 22 - Beer Brewing 101- with Dustin, Paul, and Kim


Lance Foulis, Paul, Kim, Dustin

Paul 00:00

What's funny is I think anybody that starts brewing they have to make something that their

wife likes. Yes, like Yeah. Hey, everyone, you

Lance Foulis 00:06

have to justify your time right and your time. Accurate yeah hello everybody and welcome to

Lance lots roundtable today we are going to go on a journey talking about beer. I turned 21 Just

a little while ago, it wasn't very many years ago at all that I turned 21. And I'd never had a beer

before I turned 21. I was a bit of a rule follower, I guess you could say. But I remember when I

turned 21 I was working at a bank as a bank teller part time while I was going to college, and I

was studying aviation, so I was in flight school. And I remember everybody in the bank knew

there was even customers that came in that knew I was turning 21. And there was a level of

excitement because everybody knew I hadn't had a beer yet. So when it came time for my

birthday, we had one of the girls that I worked with, she brought me a St Pauli girl with like a

bow tied around it and somebody else brought me bought me a Killians Irish Red. And then

there was other people that just like, bought me like different kinds of beer. So when I turned

21, I got to try all these different kinds of beer Killians Irish Red, that was the very first one that

I had. And I really liked it. Later on, I developed a taste that I didn't like it so much. And the St.

Pauli girl, I don't know if it was because it was like a paler ale or something. But I did not like

the taste of that for my first beer. And I remember a couple friends took me out and like we we

we just went and we tried like different beers. I can remember with my friends and I we then

kind of went on a little bit of a journey a couple friends and I we really just liked beer. So we

would go and we would just try different kinds of beers. And I remember for different people's

birthdays, we'd go to a Japanese steakhouse. And I remember having a Sapporo which is a

Japanese beer and it was so delicious. And then I remember there was this little, this little shop

on a strip mall, I guess I should say store. And I think before it was popular, and maybe even a

thing because you can do it now. But you could go in there, and they had a whole wall of

coolers, you could pick up your little six pack thing. And you could go just pick your own bottles


that you want. And we would literally create our own six packs, then we'd go home and take it

and try it figure out which ones we liked. Usually, we would just pick what we wanted based on

what the bottle looked like. So we judge the book by its cover. And then I can remember, there

was a really great little store called the Anderson's General Store, and they had a great

selection of the air, you could actually get like Sapporo there and all this different like beer. And

in addition to all of those different types of beer adventures, there was a couple like pubs that

we would that we would frequent. There was old bagging the old pub in Wellington on High

Street, we used to go there all the time. And they would just have a great list of different beers

that you could try. And again, we couldn't see the bottle names. So we went by the name, I

should say didn't we didn't see like any like bottles. So we picked based on the name. And I

remember one of my friends, he always got this one called RAS Putin and it had a very high

alcohol content. So anyway, those were a lot. Oh, and then there was this really, really great

pub in Dublin. I think it was called Yeah, it was called Brazen Head. I actually had to text my

brother and one of my friends that we used to, we used to go there. But it was amazing.

Because back before some law got passed, you could actually take pipes in there. Because we

were those kinds of people, we would take our pipes in and think that we were Gandalf the

wizard or something, we would sit down and we would order our beers and we would smoke our

pipes. But there was this really cool like back room that had a fireplace. I don't think the

fireplace was running or anything. But we would try to go get that room before anybody else.

And we would have a couple pints of beer and we would smoke our pipes. And it was a great

time that that place was called Brazen Head. And it was rumored that they had brought pieces

of a pub from Ireland over. I don't know if that's true, the more in my older years. I don't I don't

believe as many things as I did back then. But I definitely believe that they just disassembled a

pub and then brought it to Dublin, Ohio for some reason when I was younger. And then lat the

last story I guess I'll share is there was a good friend of mine. We used to go over to his house

to win like, again college years single. So me and a couple guys would go over to his house in

Worthington and we would sit down around a fire and we would we would drink bourbon. We

would drink beer and we would smoke cigars. We were we would smoke pipes. And we would in

the winter we would go in his garage and somehow do that. But we just had a great

conversation I could just remember so many great conversations around a pint of beer and

there's just something really special about beer. So all that being said, I'm excited to welcome

to landslides roundtable, Dustin, Paul and Kim, Dustin and Paul, I invited on to the podcast

because they brew their own beer. And I was really fascinated by that. And so I wanted to hear

all about how you brew beer and how they got into it. So that's what we are going to be talking

about today. So Dustin, Paul, Kim, welcome to the roundtable. Hello, nice. Yes. So um, so yeah,

just tell me like your name and tell me something neat about yourself. My name is Dustin

Doherty. Like I said, I'm a home brewer. I started I think it was oh six is when I started home

brewing. Okay, but I actually my my education backgrounds and fine art, so I actually stay

interested in Ulta. Really? That's cool. What kind of sculpting? I did a lot of metal casting. Okay,

so bronze and aluminum. Is that involved? Welding? Yeah. Wow. That's that's a cool, fun fact.

Okay, Paul.

Paul 06:05

Paul krishak I started brewing beer about eight years ago, I think 2014 I was finishing college

and was just looking for an outlet. I knew Dustin brewed beer so much longer before me that's

kind of how we got together doing this together. Okay, I'm the seller man at a small brewery in

Columbus. Okay, Sideswipe brewing. Okay. I don't think they'll mind me saying that.


Lance Foulis 06:30

Probably not. Probably not. What's a seller mean?

Paul 06:33

They give me a paycheck. So just like, basically, the back room of brewing, not necessarily

brewing, but like cleaning. Washing. Okay, Kenny beer. Okay. Tanks, things like that.

Lance Foulis 06:51

Okay, that's pretty cool. Okay.

Kim 06:53

Kim Krawcheck. Married to Paul Krysiak. used to hate beer. Really? Yep. Interesting. Every time

you hear me something like I don't know what you're doing. This tastes like trash. That was his

IPA phase. I didn't really understand them. Okay. Now I love IPAs.

Lance Foulis 07:11

What does IPA stand for? India Pale Ale. India Pale Ale. I don't think I like those either. When I

was younger,

Kim 07:18

they're very hoppy.

Dustin 07:20

I think they've changed a lot over the last two. They're kind of the traditional IPAs Are They

Now they call it like a West Coast IPA or very like piney. Okay and earthy. grassy. Where now if

you talk about like East Coast IPA is you're talking more like the hops put in later in the boil.

Okay, so you get more of the fresh like fruitiness. Okay. And so you get a lot of like stone fruit

and passion through tropical fruit flavors that come through the beer. Got it rather than those

kind of grassy, earthy flavors. Got it? Okay. I mean, you guys throw out a bunch of terms there

that I don't even know. So we're gonna get into that. But I want to find out first how you guys

even got into it. And maybe since you went first Dustin, you can. Since you started first, you

can just tell us how you got into it. I think my sort of my journey with beer. I think growing up, I

was always around like the yellow, fizzy beers that my parents drank. Sure. And my parents

were like, they don't drink on the weekends. You never drank during the week. It was a Friday

night, Saturday night. Yeah, have a few beers and kind of unwind. So I think I had a fairly

healthy view of, you know, consuming alcohol growing up. And then as I got older, and I was

similar to you, I think I was like 19 or so when I got my first beer. I didn't really drink at high





school at all. But I think it was when I started to realize there was other colors of beer besides

yellow fizzies. It was a while I was at a camp counselor in New Hampshire, okay. And I had to do

a day trip into Vermont and to Burlington and I stopped at this place for lunch in order to Miller

Light. And they're like, We don't serve that. I was like, What do you serve? And so I think they

gave me like a little flight. I think they only had like four beers. They had rainbow beer. They

had a blonde, a red ale, or amber brown and a stout. So it tastes a couple and it was like a

whole new Yeah. And so then that's what I sort of exploring beer. And then at some point, it

was after grad school. I need I think, like Paul said, it was like a creative outlet. Yeah. Because

of financial responsibilities. I moved back home with my parents and well the factory job I

absolutely hated. And that was something that I was like I beer fun beers fun. And I like beer.

Yeah. And I know that people brew it. So I bought a book, John Palmer's how to brew, okay, and

sat and just read like the first three quarters of it. And it was basically like, step by step. And I

think I read it twice and kind of like, assessed like, what equipment I would need. Yep. And

before I did it the first time and then I ran for the first time. It was just absolutely nerve

wracking. Yeah. No doubt, right. No doubt. Is it in the book the whole time he's talking about

it's like, Have everything ready. Think about the next Before you're doing this stuff and all

about cleanliness and sanitation, but sure, okay, that's that's fantastic. Paul, how'd you how'd

you get started?

Paul 10:09

So I started a long time after him actually, I think he probably started what like 2005, or

Dustin 10:15

oh six, but I took a big gap. I think I brewed for a year, year and a half, and then kind of

stopped. I had, I've met my now wife, and we were dating a lot. And then we moved in

together. And and we were just doing other stuff. And so that sort of that need to fill space and

time was sort of replaced by, you know, meeting somebody and yummy relationship. Yeah. And

then Paul started brewing again. And that's sort of what got me back into it. Interesting. Okay,

that's it some background, Paul, and I actually went to like elementary school in high school

together. Wow. We were brief briefly roommates in college roommates. Wow. So we've our

lives have kind of like went back and forth. And yeah, we've seen each other and then hung out

then not. And then I think over the last probably eight to 10 years, our relationships. I mean,

we're pretty or like our best friend. We've seen him almost every Friday. And that's fantastic.

That's a six story. So how daunting was it? Like when you guys, I mean, you probably maybe

less daunting for you, because you kind of knew from him? How to get into it.

Paul 11:19

You know, I started separately on my own. He did. Okay, yeah. And it was a lot easier for me in

2014. I mean, we have the internet and YouTube and yeah, so it wasn't like, it wasn't like going

through a book and be like, Oh, my gosh, did I do that wrong? It was like, Yeah, I can see

somebody do it. Yeah, you know, and I had, I like to have conversations over beer too. So I

talked to brewers around town and get, you know, information from them pick their heads, how

do they do this? How do you how do you do that? How did you get started? Is it kind of just like

natural progression? Yeah, I didn't have something. Because I didn't have a ton of free time in




college. Yeah, the one I did, it was going out and having beers and, you know, probably having

conversations with people. And I think just kind of like, you know, I do need something to do.

Like, I used to be in a band before I went back to college. And that was like my creative outlet.

That's what I had. And you know, not having that. I think that's kind of what drove that. And I

think I was getting so burned out from being in school. Hmm. Like going back. It took me

almost four years going back because I switched my major from religion to business, and it was

just like this completely different. Yeah,

Lance Foulis 12:30

there pletely different tribes. You can't like criss cross those at all.

Paul 12:34

Yeah, so it just, you know, there was I remember there was one semester hadn't taken any

time off. Like I went to Franklin. We had trimesters, so you didn't get any breaks you just gross

right back in. And I made a trimester

Lance Foulis 12:48

is for a full year. Yeah, for the

Paul 12:51

full year, you have three semesters. So instead of like quarters or semesters, you just do three

semesters. So you're just ramping it up. Oh, god. Yeah. So I was going like halftime. And you

know, were you working too? Yeah, I was working like 4550 hours a week all the time. And she

just didn't have any. Yeah, didn't have any time to do anything. So it was I took us I remember,

I was like, it's summertime. And our backyard looks terrible. I just want to I want to mow the

grass and put some flowers out there. Yeah. I want to do something besides go to school all the

time. Yeah. Yeah, that's how I got into it, though. Just, it was just like, I tried something. And I

seen some videos like this looks like something I could do. And I really like beer. Yeah. So I just

went for it. And then I brought him in later, like, hey, yeah, we should brew together like,

Lance Foulis 13:43

yeah, so what was your your gap? Like, from when you had stopped? And then to when you

guys started doing that together? What was your gap? It was a good stretch. Like I said, it was

from about 2007 or eight. And so when did you say you started? Like 2014? So it's about seven,

seven years? Yeah, stretch there. Okay. So like when he came to you, and he's like, we should

brew together for you just like me, like, yeah, no, actually, I was like well, I had a newborn. Oh,

so I had a two year old daughter. And I think we were expecting one. Which they're now seven

and 10. Seven. Yeah. But those early years, man, yeah, it's wears you out. But But no, I my, my

wife was like, Yeah, you know, hang out with Paul. It's something to do. And I was still I felt like,

I still work a job I don't really love. Yeah. And it was like, it'll get you out of a rut, you know, do



something creative because we're, you know, it's just hyper nose to the grindstone and you go

work and you do your time you watch me take care of the kids and then you you know, sleep

and repeat. Yeah, so it's like it'd be something to do and she kind of like encouraged me to to

jump in. And I think in Paul actually, there's Obviously, there's different processes that you can

kind of use to get to beer as a final product. Okay, and when I had started, it was sort of an

abbreviated, it's called extract brewing. Okay. And basically you buy like a Canna syrup, okay.

And it's I think it's probably like about but it's, it's almost like it is like a heavy syrup, okay? And

it's all the sugars that they get off of the grain. So you kind of skip a step. Got it. But you can

kind of add specialty grains to personalize it. Okay, so the, what comes into Canada is just your

very basic, like, what's going to convert into sugars to alcohol, got it. And then you can sprinkle

some stuff in for flavor and change the hops around and add the side what used to put in so it's

still very personal personalizable. Yeah. But you kind of skip a step and doing it. Yeah. And so I

had done that. And then Paul just jumped right in. Yeah. And he went all grain, like right off the

bat. And I was really intimidated to take that step when I was brewing. And he was like, why

don't you bring with me, like, you can show me some stuff. And, and he was telling me about

his process, like you're above and beyond where I ever was. So Wow. But yeah. So we kind of

started in a different method. But yeah, so like, when you when you started was, like, there

were like, to your point, there wasn't as much. Is it true that there wasn't as much like YouTube

and like, so it's really just a lot of book learning stuff. I think coming out of college and grad

school, I leaned into books anyways, sure, I did seek out books, and didn't really think to use

the internet as a resource like that. Yeah. I mean, there's definitely was and there were like,

online supply houses that still exist today to get ingredients from or equipment from? Yeah. But

yeah, it was mostly books and trial and error. And, yeah, I'm just sort of like, well of if this does

this, and I changed this to this ratio. And there's some sort of proportion fine tuning, then.

Yeah, yeah. But yeah, I felt like there in the brain community has been around for a long time

the numbering community is became legal again to brew homebrew, I think it was like in 76.

And the Carter administration got it. They really legalized it. Did that have anything to do with

like, dry? Like, what are they? What's the word for? No, thank you. Should that have anything?

Yeah, I think that's kind of where they stopped allowing homebrewing. So I took all that time

from the 30s until like the 70s until Jimmy Carter, and I think is actually his brother. I want to

say it's Baba. Okay. And there was a Baba beer, and I think it had something to do with him. He

sort of just like, one of those presidential high five. It's like, Hey, guys, you can homebrew

again. Yeah. And everybody's like, yeah. But yeah, so the there started that community up

again. Yeah. And they existed in like the 90s and 2000s. And they were Tober shops in

Columbus. So obviously, there's a market for it. Yeah. But I never I felt like very much like I

didn't know where to like meet these people at other than bumping into them at The Brew

Shop. Sure. And in those situations, I'm not the most extroverted person. Yep. I think I've

become one. Later. Yeah. Like, I'll see somebody and I was like, what you're doing? Yeah, you

said, you shoot the breeze for a while. Got it. But um, I think then I was like, I don't wanna look

like an idiot. Yeah, just don't talk to anybody. And like, the guy's probably over for like, what's

he doing? Yeah. Shoveling stuff in a bag. I don't know. That's really funny. I so. Okay. My I'm

really curious. Like, what is that when you guys both got into it? And like even now, like, what's,

what would you say? Is the the financial commitment that you got? It's probably all over the

place, right?

Paul 18:50

It can be. It can be frugal at the beginning. But then once you realize, yeah, it's gonna be a lot

faster if I buy this a lot easier. If I buy this, then it just starts adding up. So yeah, if you're

seriously wanting to do it, I would say just invest the money ran out the bread. I mean, maybe


like a couple 1000 bucks. Y'all get started. But if you just want to try it, I mean, you could I

think my first setup all grain and everything I might have spent like $250 total, just to get

started. Yeah. That's pretty awesome. Yeah. So I mean, I bought a lot of used stuff. And I think

there's even more used stuff. Now. Dustin just bought a bunch of us stuff off Craigslist, or,

Lance Foulis 19:33

yeah, it was a Facebook marketplace. During the pandemic. We were kind of taking it serious

and not seeing each other. Yeah. As most people should have been. Yeah. And so but he was

always a lot. He bought all the equipment and had all the equipment and we would a lot of

times split costs on the supplies like the consumable part, right? But then we weren't seeing

each other. And we got I got kind of got back into one of those ruts where it's bored again. And

so I just started looking on Facebook marketplace and bought my own little setup. And I think I

spent about 300 or 350. And pretty much guy and. And actually, now that I burned for a while I

kind of knew what I needed to get get going right off the RIP. And so I'd saw the setup and the

guy that was selling it, I recently found out that he was gluten intolerant. And he kept getting

really sick. And he was like, I just can't drink beer anymore. And it stinks. Yeah, so I bought his

equipment. And so he let it go to a fair price. Yeah. But yeah, I think that's a lot of people

upgrade as they go along. So the marketplace and Craigslist, that's a good place to look for

used equipment, because people are, they're trying to help finance their next thing by selling

the old thing. Sure. That That makes sense. So like, it doesn't sound like a terrible process to

get up and running. And what I do find every everybody that I've had on and we've talked

about something like this, that's a hobby, especially like a creative outlet, they say a lot of

things that you guys have been saying just the need for the creative outlet, because of the

mundaneness of your regular responsible adult life. Yeah. And it's funny, because a lot of

people have said, like YouTube, I just started watching videos on the subject. And then I got

into it, like the first guy that I had on, we talked about hunting. That's essentially how he got

into it, because he didn't grow up hunting. And then he found somebody that could take them

out and show them the ropes. And that's kind of how I got started. And everything does have

like a financial a financial cost to get started. But it seems like with a lot of these types of

hobbies, you can get started for relatively low. And then if he if you really like I mean, this

whole setup that we have for the podcast, we started off not anything remotely like this, but

then I really enjoy doing the podcast. So we then we decided to make a more significant

investment. And it does make a big difference. This equipment makes the podcast way more

efficient. So I get what you're saying about like, Oh, if I get this equipment, it'll cut my my time

commitment from this step from four hours to one hour.

Paul 22:05

Well, I think originally to I think we both had this discussion, like originally when you start

brewing, you're like, oh, I can save so much. Yeah, yeah, now. I save money. But it's a fun thing

to do. So. So

Lance Foulis 22:21

yeah. So like, tell me about let's talk about just the process of brewing beer. How do you guys

go about it? Well, like I said, we we do all grain. So basically, we start with barley, majority of

its barley is your base grain. And it's been molted, where they sort of start the process of it like


its barley is your base grain. And it's been molted, where they sort of start the process of it like

sprouting. And so that kind of weakens the outer shell. And it gets it easier to get to the sugars

that are inside there. Got it. And so I usually we're talking about sort of how we explained it to

people sort of in preparation of this and I said, I usually tell people it's like making a giant batch

of tea. Yeah. So like I my, what's called a mash tun. But that's where you see steep the grain

and hot water. Okay, and sort of the temperature of the water depends on how you want the

final outcome beer to be as far as like, how dryness, how dry, how much body you want to it.

What are those terms mean?

Paul 23:19

So like a lager would be like a drier beer or some a lot of IPAs are drier, too, like you get a finish

in the back of your throat where you know, you want to take another drink. Yeah. But you can

balance that out too. Okay, so I don't know would be like a heavier beer that would be kind of in

the middle.

Dustin 23:38

Like, well, like a red ale or something red ale? Yeah. LearnEnglish ale where there's, you can

kind of feel it more in your mouth. And like when you drink after you drink it, it's sort of like

coffee has the aftertaste that lingers on the back of the throat. Yeah, that would not be a dry

finish. Like the dry finish is usually it's gone. It's crisp. Yeah. And you Your mouth is kind of you

want to take another drink. Okay. And then sort of the more the less dry finish it's more of that

lingering sort of remembrance of what it tastes like. It was a Guinness like that then I feel like

Guinness days is actually a lot of a lot of stouts people think are like big heavy beers, but like a

Guinness is a dry Irish dry like, it's usually a lighter body and a dry finish. But they're I think

people see how black they are and are kind of intimidated. Got it. Okay. Yeah. So like the

interesting thing about Guinness is I actually did this, I did not like Guinness at all. It felt like it

tasted too much like, like, the, the container that it was in. But then I spent 28 When I was in

college, I spent 28 days going throughout Europe. And so when I was in Great Britain, I got to

have like, a pint of actual It was delicious. Yeah, that's cool. It was so delicious. Can you guys so

Okay, let's go back to the process. So you've got like, your your container, how big is the

container? It's about minus 10 gallon 10 Well depends on how much you're trying to make.

Sure brew and five gallons. That's a pretty common size. homebrew size is a five gallon or 10

gallon, we do five gallon batches. And are you are you heating it in the container? No, we we

have like a turkey fryer propane and like a big pot. And so we heat the water up and then put

hot water into the mash tun Yeah, you

Paul 25:23

hold it you hold that grain with the water that you've measured out and you get a lot of these

calculations are easy to find online. Got it? Or or even like that how to rulebook as a lot of

information on it. Got it. But yeah, you hold it for a certain amount of time, you're trying to get

as much sugar as you can get off of those grains. And while you're holding it, so some of them

will be like, some some grains, especially like darker grains can take a little longer. So you may

have to go, you know, you may have to go 90 minutes, you may have to go 60 minutes while

you're holding it just depends. I've had some that I've done for like two hours




Lance Foulis 25:58

before. Okay. And are you like using a timer? Yeah, just keep a

Paul 26:03

timer and every 15 minutes or so to give it a stir, stir it in the brewery, they just have a fork

that's raking around so they don't have to do any of that. Okay,

Lance Foulis 26:12

I think I've seen a video of what you're talking about, like a big old container and like it's

stirring it around. Okay, what what happens after that,

Paul 26:20

after that we take so much we take take it off, but we're also rinsing it at the same time. So the

grains barging,

Dustin 26:29

barging so you ours run on like gravity, basically. So you have mash tun sets, probably about

table height, okay, and then you're what's going to be your brew kettle sits a little lower, okay,

there's literally just a spigot on the front got it. And this big, it usually has a metal screen, or

there's a false bottom with lots of holes. Sure, fairly small that won't let that grain run through.

Got it. And so you're running off that liquid and it's really sticky. Has a nice, I like the smell a lot

of people hate it, you know. But you're running that off there. And then you kind of as that's

running out, that sparging process is your there's another vessel that's hotter or higher that has

the hot water in it. So as this is coming out, hot water is going back in again. And wow. And so

all the sugary water is at the bottom. Uh huh. Because it's heavier. And that clean, hot water is

at the top. And so that kind of helps you once you get to how much liquid you want. You just

stop. Got it? And then you end up with that's what you call that's gonna be the future beer.

Yep, down here. Okay. Yeah. And then,

Paul 27:33

and there's easier ways to do some people just batch sparge. Or they'll just let it right out of

the container and they'll completely

Lance Foulis 27:38

dump and then put a new batch of hot water, let it sit another 15 minutes and then run that out

again. Yeah. Okay. We found that what we call efficiency, which is sort of how much sugar you

get at the end. We get higher efficiency by doing it's called a fly sparge where you're putting





get at the end. We get higher efficiency by doing it's called a fly sparge where you're putting

the hot water as you're pulling off the now word. Okay, what's going to be here? Okay. Once

you're done with that process, is the green done? Or is it reused?

Paul 28:07

You can? I think we both made dog treats out of it before. Yeah, it's awesome. Yeah, add some

peanut butter. And a

Dustin 28:14

lot of commercial breweries have they teamed up the farmers. And the farmer will come in

shortly after a brew process and take it away and tubs and they feed they can feed like cows

and pigs. So it doesn't go to waste. And that's fascinating. I know land grant is really good

about having like composting and they they're they try to have very minimal footprint, what

they leave behind and they even have like a un I'm not familiar with it. All right, no, they have

some sort of program that once you're done fermenting, there's like a layer at the bottom.

That's kind of yuck. Mm hmm. And it's called troub. Okay, it's like, when it's post post

fermentation, it's all the the yeast, sort of Eat as much sugar as it can and falls back down to

the bottom. Mm hmm. So they try to dump that out. And then they have some sort of program

that it did Richard soil, so they have some sort of gardens that they go with that that's

amazing. We do gardening on the side that's one of our hobbies. Since we have K I'm not

familiar with by I remember reading a poster at their brewery that talked about how they all the

bits and pieces try not to go to waste and but that's just that's fascinating is like the process

where you do something another man your waste becomes another man's treasure type of a

deal. That's really fascinating to me. Okay, so what do we do once we have the the beer down

here or the future beer down here, then what do we do?

Paul 29:34

So you know, we'll try to collect depending on the amount of time that we have to boil it for

because I think you're about every 60 minutes. What do you think you're blowing off like an

hour or a gallon? an hour? Yeah, so depending on how long we're boiling for, we're gonna

collect what we need to keep five gallons in there. So we just bring it to a boil and then we

have different hop additions depending on what bitterness level? Or what aroma level or just

even like, the tastes, flavoring. So yeah, just depending on where we put those hops in, that's

what's going to flavor. That's what's going to give it the Hoppy, like balance of the grain,

especially for the parallels and IPAs and stuff.

Lance Foulis 30:21

Sure. So is the whole process, something that you have to do start to finish? Or can you do is I

like to do it that way. Because you definitely want to really avoid any sort of like, bacteria, or

it's brewing process is very much about cleanliness, like cleaning everything all the time. And

then, especially after the boil, everything that touches the beer, or the beer is going to come in

contact with has to be like we have food grade sanitizer that we use. Wow. And it's just got to




be uber clean. Or also, it's just it'll, it'll grow all kinds of funk and weirdness. But there's beer

styles that rely on that, like sours, Paul's are really into sour beers. And you literally, you do the

mash, and I think that's you there is you explain it there

Paul 31:08

are I do make kettle sours sometimes, so sometimes I'll just collect my mash like it the once

I've collected my work, that's what they call it after your for install your green, okay? Like, I'll

collect that, and I'll pitch lactic acid in it, or lactobacillus. I'll pitch that in, and I'll let that set.

But yeah, you just let it get to a certain pH level. Okay, acidity, and then once it gets there,

then you boil it. So like kettle sours at home, I let mine go for a couple of days. But at the

brewery, sometimes I'll see them like just poking to see if the pH is done. It may take like a day

or something. Sometimes I get them in less than a day.

Lance Foulis 31:48

And what do you do with it? That's called War. Yep. And what to do with that, once you

Paul 31:52

get your war and you're ready, that's what I was saying. You would start adding your hops

while you're boiling it. Okay. And then from there, once you get the desired amount that you're,

you're done boiling 1691 20, whatever you're doing.

Dustin 32:09

That's time 60 minutes, 90 minutes, 120 minutes, or however long you want to boil it for. Yeah.

And that's usually dictated on how much our ingredients, the alcohol and then also the hop.

The longer the hop rides in the boil, the more bitter it's going to taste. Okay, so like where

we're talking about the IPAS for the West Coast. Those relied more on Early Edition hops that

pride for I mean, there's 120 minute beers. Okay, that just gets real better. Yeah, our 90

minute, I'd say most of ours are about a 60 minute boil.

Paul 32:41

Yeah, usually seven then. So you may just have a

Lance Foulis 32:45

little bit of hops that kind of get that bitterness for the balance later on. And then like, five

minutes before the boils up, you're throwing in some more, and those will add more aromatic?

Yeah, got it. So you won't get the bitterness, but you'll smell the sort of flowery qualities. Yeah,

or the fruity qualities that the the hop has to lend. Okay, let me repeat back what I think the

process is. This is what's in my head. And then you tell me where my gaps are. So you've got





like your grains, and it's in it's in your container, and you're going to put the boiling water in

there. Not boiling hot water, hot water goes in there. And then it sits for 60 minutes, normally

220 minutes. Yeah. And then you add things to it at that point, or you're adding throughout,

you start

Paul 33:28

boiling your word at that point, and then you start adding your hops.

Lance Foulis 33:33

Okay. Okay. And then after you've done that process, that's when you run it through. After the

Paul 33:40

the boil after the boil is when you start cool. Yeah, you got to get it cold. Okay, you don't want

to introduce yeast into hot beer. See, you got to chill it.

Lance Foulis 33:52

Whatever house is a yeast. Are you physically adding the yeast in the process? Sort of like the

last sort of the last step until like the packaging, how do you get it cool?

Paul 34:03

Well, there's different methods. I think your destin was the first one I ever seen. He did it with

ice bath the very first time he ever did it. Yeah, really. That can take a while it does.

Dustin 34:13

And there's a contraption. It's basically a giant copper coil. And so you're run cold water

through that coil. So it becomes basically submersible IceCube Oh, so the water never comes in

contact with your the word that you just made. Okay. And so then I had a pump that would help

I had an ice bath with a submersible pump. So it run that really cold water through and so it

would cool it a little faster. Are you like checking temperatures during this whole thing? Yeah.

Ideally, I think we depends on what yeast you're going for. They all the packaging usually tell

you, they'll say like this yeast likes these temperature. So it kind of gives you about a 10

degree window. Got it. And so that's sort of what you're aiming for. Like on a hot summer day

because we use groundwater for the most part, okay, so it's just I hook up my garden hose, I

still use that chiller, the one I have now is longer and bigger. So there's more surface area

coming in contact with the beer, so it works faster. And so you're saying that's what you're

using to chill to do the chilling.





Paul 35:16

I mean, some people that just bring over beer that took him like two hours to chill, I think I have

tasted like flaws on that. But interesting. The one that we have now the one that we use you

primarily is a plate chiller. And it just pumps through these plates has all these little plates and

that the beer goes through other plates and that's all contacted through there. So just pumping

into the vessel got it and it's just similar process chill and it really fast it only take now on a

summer day might take like five, not even maybe two minutes to chill five. Oh, wow. Okay, but

yeah, there are times when it's really hot outside, it will take longer, but it's it doesn't take

more than 510 minutes, even with a plate chiller.

Lance Foulis 35:59

And you guys said that this that you're doing the the main thing that everything is in is a 1010


Paul 36:06

Five, but our first one is usually bigger, because if beers in a tight space, it's kind of put it in


Lance Foulis 36:13

over to Yeah, got it. Okay. Like, I think I have a 15 gallon pot. That's when I the one I bought off

marketplace. And that's if someone's going to think about home brewing, I would say go bigger

off the bat. Sure. It doesn't hurt to have extra room. And then if you do decide to go up and do

10 gallon batches, but I found that I sort of formulate for like six or seven gallons because of

loss along the way. Sure. Like Paul mentioned, you lose it as you boil. Yep. And then also just

your equipment sorted. Keep some of it like when I'm pouring it from one container to the next.

A lot of time there's some goop in the bottom you really don't want to carry along so you're you

feel you don't feel as bad about getting that last drop out. You can sacrifice like that looks kind

of gross. I'll leave that behind. Sure. And then you're still hitting along the way or at least fill

that five gallon target. So yeah, that I guess that maybe that's where that came from. So the

end result is you're going to get a five gallons really

Paul 37:09

Yeah, wow. Times a little extra. If you're dry hoppin, you're going to lose them. So you might

want to get six or five and a half at the end. Because some beers you want to dry up. Like

that's a little later in the process. You got a pitcher yeast first. That's when you get it to the

temperature. Usually between 6575 degrees somewhere in there. Okay, that's when you

pitcher yeast. And that's going to be usually just left alone for Yeah, it a couple weeks or we

can have got it you only touch it.

Lance Foulis 37:42




Lance Foulis 37:42

Okay, it was your as your cooling it or after you call it you go from that? boil kettle. And then

we I we both prefer, it's a big looks like those five gallon water jugs you see in an office like

yes, upside down LA Times? Well, there's glass ones you get as home brewers are called

carboys is the trade term for them got it. And we that's what we typically ferment and glass is

non porous, you can clean it really well. And it doesn't carry flavors along with it. Some people

use plastic, and that's fine. It's affordable. It's definitely cheaper. Yeah. But yeah, once you go

from the boil kettle, and then you go into what you call your fermenter or the carboy. Okay, and

then that's when you pitch that yeast. And then do you do it? Do you do it. So like as soon as

you've cooled yet, then it goes into the other container, you put the yeast in there first.

Paul 38:33

Yeah, you kind of move it you can do either way, just depending on what your aeration

situation is because you want to get as much oxygen into that beer as it's like, if you're moving

it over, you could probably just pour it in and run it right over top because it's it's moving God

into the vessel but and inside so I mean, I don't want to give away their secrets. But all

breweries will take like their dry yeast. And we'll just get it kind of wet. And they'll rehydrate it

that dry yeast and to get a little warm. Notice throw it in the fermenter and just run that that

word right over top of it. And it'll just be in the bottom of that. Whatever they call it, the big

vessels can fermented fermented tank. Yeah, got it. So, yeah, and you know, the liquid yeast a

lot of times when we're home brewing, we just kind of like you shake it up or we'll use like a

mixer and mix it all up then want it like it, especially our liquid yeast. Sure. Yeah, that's how

we'll usually do it. But I never had a problem with yeast. It's not it's always worked. Yeah,

Lance Foulis 39:40

that's it. Okay, that that the process is making sense. So then once you get it in a fermenter

you pick how long you want to set it. Like yeah, sorry for

Paul 39:49

Yeah, generally, I think most beer will be a few weeks and and sometimes you move it into a

secondary vessel, like in the bird They have like conical so there's a like a, it comes down to a

point. Yep. So well all we had to do is open a valve and that just spits all

Lance Foulis 40:09

that jumps out though the US geez, yeah. Okay

Paul 40:12

clears everything up a bit,




Dustin 40:14

but as a homebirth, the firming of that. So after it's I usually do, I'm very kind of like, I do one

week and the firm Enter, and then I move it over to it's called a secondary, or it's just going to

sit a little extra longer. And I do two weeks in a secondary. And I just, it's for me, it just works

out better for different beer styles, it probably go faster, and some could probably go longer.

But that's just the schedule I've always done. And it works. So like, Are you checking on it?

Yeah, kind of you don't really want too much. That's sort of the benefit of using the glass

carboy is you can peek in, in a sense. Like just to look at it visually. Yeah, and see what's going

on with it. And there's this little thing at the top of the bottle, like when it comes to a neck.

There's a bomb that goes in or like a cork and then it has a hole drilled in it and there's a little

plastic thing is called an airlock. Okay, let the air lock does is it lets co2 out because as it's

fermenting, the yeast is converting sugars into ethyl alcohol magics happening. Yeah, and

then. But it's also releasing co2 gas. So if you have it completely sealed up, it'll pop and a lot of

times you'll get a mess. Yeah, so this airlock let's that just has a little bit of sanitizer in it. So it

kind of bubbles. Uh huh. So it lets air out but no air in. Okay. So you can kind of gauge how

you're doing by looking at the like, how many bubbles per second? Wow, you can kind of see

okay, yeah, it's really looking good. And like, yes, it's hard not to especially as a first time are

Ivoryton buckets to start with really I brought by Kit plastic five gallon, their food grade, but I

think they're six gallon buckets because we're trying for a five gallon batch. So yeah, a little bit

of extra space. Yeah, but as a kid I bought from it's a brew shop here in Columbus called

Gentiles and it was like everything the need to brew your first batch. Okay, and so it had like

two buckets. One had a spigot on it came with a big plastic tubing probably three or four foot

long stick with like a spring loaded nozzle to fill bottles later. capper to cap the bottles later.

But it was just like I'm trying to think I think it came with a funnel. And it was just sort of like

this is the bare necessities. Yeah, I remember like trying to sell Yeah, I think that is good value

for your money is after you kind of source all these individually. Yeah, like buying the package

deals way to go. But then you have this five gallon bucket that's opaque. And so it just like isn't

working. What's it look like? And I've never brewed? I've never knew known anybody that

brewed. I've never seen beer brewing in the process. So I'm just like, but did the bucket has a

hole in the top where you can put the airlock in? Yeah. And so you're seeing the bubbles

happen? Yeah, but you want to crack it open so bad, but you really don't. Then you're going to

introduce like, if you have a pet, a stray cat hair or a dog falls in there. A speck of dust scale

over your knees when you don't expect it. And then it's just like I bite to just ruin that. And it's

just you got to just let it ride. What Okay, so like, first time like you're brewing beer. I'm just

picturing myself I'd be a complete mess. But how confident are you at the end of the process

that you're not gonna make yourself super sick? Not at all.

Lance Foulis 43:33

Like after the fermentation when I'm sure I peeked once or twice. And while it ferments like if

you like, now I have a carboy. So I can watch it happen. If you are looking at it, you can literally

see the liquid, like churning inside there, you can see how the starts to come together. It's

called flocculation. Or they they sort of gang up together and hang out. So you see these

chunks floating around and like what's the chunks I don't like? Yeah, yeah, but there there is

that bad. Right? So you see all this stuff happening. And then after it's done, like within the

carboy you can see like at the bottom, there's probably about a quarter inch of this really kind

of white, like silty that's all your yeast that's fallen to the bottom. They're now fat and happy in

their sleep and at the bottom. Wild. On top. Like all this sort of like really kind of gross looking

foam happens on the top because yeah, ale yeast and ales, ale beers are easier for home


brewers to brew because the yeast works at room temperature. Got it where a lager yeast you

need to refrigerate. So you need they like about 50 degrees or so to ferment. So you need to

have your own creation and that that's where you get into the temperature controls or

temperature control fermenters and like to run a glycol chiller on this thing. Yeah. And it's just

like then you're all this other equipment. I've tried to keep it basic. I pretty much just stick to

ales. Yeah. And so it's just like I put it in a cool corner of my house. I wrap it with a bath towel.

Yeah. Because you don't want light in there lights bad for beer. Is that That's similar to

kombucha, right? That would be Yeah. Yeah. But you want to keep the light off of it. So I just

put a bath towel around it or but I can still see the Bubbler going. And then sometimes I'll just

take a peek put it back. Yeah. But yeah, that when you first your first batch, you look at it like

this. Yeah, gross. Okay. So then you move it over, either to like, the bucket you're going to

bottle into, or, like you're doing a secondary, you move it over, and there's all this junk left at

the bottom. That's where I say I kind of make a bigger batch than I need, then I can feel bad

about like, I want to leave that. And just, I just don't mind on the saying this is leftover. Some

people reclaim it, reuse it. And is that like, is that like the thing? We're like you have them you

can have a mother. And then the kind of I think that's more like a sourdough thing in truth.

Yeah, my brother does in New York. Yeah, I know that pizza, like will brew a batch of beer, and

then kind of retain that and then move it for the next next batch. And then okay, so you don't

have like one that's constantly growing. You just keep it keep the chain moving, of like you

keep a little from the last batch to us. And the next batch. Yeah, keep a little from that batch to

move to the next batch. Does that give you control over flavor? It does. And then it sort of kind

of creates its own unique flavor. I think Jersey time there's one of the wild the granddaddy

breweries here in Columbus is barleys. They have a location on the high street in the short

north area. Yep. Yep. And the guy that owns that he was a home brewer. And from what I hear,

I've never I've talked to him like one time for like a very brief Yeah, maybe a few times. But um,

but the word on the street is he's a very, very hospitable to home brewers. And he's had this

strange yeast that he uses any cabinet perpetually going. And they've been open for I guess, I

want to say about as it been 30 years or 20 years, I think they're the longest ones. But he kind

of always has this yeast on hand. And my story is, is if you catch them at the brewery and ask

him for some he'll, like fill up like a little growler of it. And it's like, you get this giant container.

This is a story that someone told me and it's like, he's like, Sure, I'll get you some nice and it's

like this giant, like half gallon container, and you're using maybe an ounce. And so it's like, Oh,

great. What do I know? He's just, he's just really helped. Happy to help. homebrewers and he

had super cool. Prior to the pandemic, they'd held a homebrew competition, like every year for

like, 20 some years. Wow. So they haven't picked it back up yet. I don't know. I could say.

Okay, that this is like super fascinating. Like, Kim once got into trying to brew kombucha? Who

gave you the who gave you the? Yeah. Oh, that's right. Yeah. So she was doing like, I mean, it's

nothing like what you guys are describing, like at all? Okay, so history. Was it monks that came

up that figured out beer? I think it goes beyond monks. i We're talking like 5000. Back, really?

And I mean, the story, I think that most people would say is it's pretty much saved humanity.

Because it the process of making beer makes your liquid clean, drink clean. So you're boiling

water. And it's also a way like, farmers would have so much grain, but they can't store it in a

good way. So they make this liquid bread. Yeah, it has nutritional value. Yep. The water has

been boiled. So it's something sanitary and safe to drink. So that's sort of the origins of it. And a

lot of times, like when you think of like gold, they were probably hammered all the time. But it

was probably like a 2% beer. Yeah, like it was really and it's like I couldn't even imagine like

who figured this out? Right. But somebody did it. And then thank goodness, but But yeah, it

was but yeah, it was common that actually the it was they call them l wives. It was sort of the

the wives responsibility. And so most brewers right off the bat are women. Oh, I mean, it makes

sense. Yep. Makes sense. Yeah. Part of the household duty. Yeah, your hands feel so good. I

mean it because what you're describing is a very hands on process, at least at the beginning.

Now do you guys have like a dedicated space for this?

Paul 49:24

I mean, space in my house. It's probably I like to have more space. But yeah,

Lance Foulis 49:30

us too. Yeah, I think similar to your it breaks down and stores. Yeah. Like, there's definitely

guys that have like a small, like small scale brewery in their basement. Yep. Like, and it's like

some of the stuff I see on there is just bananas. I mean, it's like a step down from a

microbrewery. Yeah. And that's, that's wild. When you're done with the fermenting process.

What do you have to do next? Packaging?

Paul 49:57

Yeah, dipping

Lance Foulis 49:58

so you're mostly done.

Paul 50:00

Most Yeah, you're in the homestretch for sure. There are some beers, you might want to dry

hop, which is just introducing more hops for more aroma.

Lance Foulis 50:11

Can you tell me what a hop is?

Paul 50:12

It's like a it looks like a little pine cone. Okay. That's what I was visualizing. Yeah. Okay, so has

like little resins in it. And those resins are what flavor.

Lance Foulis 50:21

So you if you wanted to add it, you would be adding it into, like, it's done fermenting. You add it

in that container. Yeah,





in that container. Yeah,

Paul 50:28

say like 510 days, you can throw it right into the container it. It's sanitary. I don't know how

Dustin 50:36

Yeah, well, we use the hops, we typically use or processed, it's not like that whole little, that's

called like a cone or the hot flour. We use it's their hot pellets, where they take that flour and

basically pulverize it. And then they bind it together with some sort of food grade gum, got it,

and it extrudes out and they just sort of cut it. So it literally looks like little tiny pellets. But it's

great, actually, you get more bang for your buck with those because if you throw the whole

cone in there, just the outer letter layer is touching the boiling beer with the pulverize pellet, as

soon as you touch it, then it basically dissolves into the the liquid. Oh, and so you get more

hospitalization where there's more surface area touching the bits of pop, so you can use less

hot but get more of the bitterness or the flavor out of it. Okay, so that's what you're doing with

the hops is is affecting the bitterness, bitterness and overall flavor. Overall flavor. Yeah. And

aroma, aroma. Again, with hops. It's tricky, because it's like when you're putting it in. Yeah. So

the very the longer it sits in the boil, the better it gets. So you get really bitterness. If it sits in

there for an hour, an hour and a half. If you're putting it in in the last five minutes, it's more or

less, it's going to affect the taste. Yeah, it's not the bitter taste heard. That's when you're

getting more of the fruitiness from it. And then like Paul said, at the very end, when you're

putting it into the after it's been fermented the dry hop, yeah, you're it's almost 100% smell. So

if you're not going to impart much flavor, you're imparting absolutely no bitterness, but it's all

smell that you're getting.

Paul 52:11

But that can sometimes affect how you perceive taste for sure

Lance Foulis 52:15

how you perceive the taste. Yeah, that's interesting. Have you guys ever like brewed and like,

you get the final product? And it's like, wow, and then you don't remember the process? So you

can't replicate it?

Paul 52:28

No, we both are pretty good about writing everything down. Or

Lance Foulis 52:34

is this is a beer journal?





Paul 52:36

Yeah, journals. That's dope. They also online, there's references. Like I use one called bruger.

You can just type everything and we use the same one. And you can go through and add notes

through the whole process,

Lance Foulis 52:48

just like an online app. Yeah, yeah, it's I don't know. I don't think they have an app. I had to

Yeah, yeah. Exciting. That's cool. Okay, so how do you have time to write while you're doing

this? Sort of like there. There is big breaks, because you're waiting. Like when you're mashing,

you're waiting that hour. Got it. So it's like you're kind of setting up for your next step. But that

typically doesn't take that whole time of mashing. So there are times where, like, we'll set up a

couple chairs. Yeah, so let's sit down and like we have our timer set and we are like, some

Facebook and yeah, music are like, Hey, do you see that article? We need to stir and like 30

seconds. All right, I'll get this stir. That's awesome. But uh, cleaning some things in but yeah,

clean things in between because sometimes something you use in step one, you'll need again

in step five, so you got to get clean, clean and sanitize if needed, then, or you need a whole

kind of thing set up for step three. So you kind of start well, let's start sanitizing or fermenter.

And we'll get the RS chiller system set up with the hoses and pump. So we can circulate the

liquid through and that's okay, this is so wild. i Okay, I want to get your take on this. When I

when I was in flight school, we had checklists literally for everything. And it was all about being

safe, because you don't want to crash. Yeah. Most most days you don't want to crash to good

life goal, right to not crash. So like we would every single plane had basically like a notebook

that was just like checklists for whatever you're about to do. Okay, I am getting ready to turn

on the engine. Let me go through my engine checklist. We had a checklist that we went

through while we're going into land. All these things to look at look out the window, make sure

you still have a wheel. Which is really important if you have landing gear that goes up and

down obviously, but even with like landing gear that doesn't go up into the plane, you still want

to go look as a habit to make sure you can see a wheel. Obviously that makes sense. But I

remember never getting to a point where I was comfortable enough with a checklist that I

didn't look at it. Yeah. Well, you weren't. You were actually required to look at it but there was

plenty of times I was flying by myself and I wouldn't have to but I never felt safe enough to not

look so like. It's good to have it. When are you guys doing anything like that while you're going

through all this stuff?

Paul 55:07

Yeah, I have forgotten a step before. Oh, yeah, I don't put Irish moss and like was my beer so

cloudy? What did I yeah, that's

Dustin 55:14

sort of like it doesn't really affect the flavor it affects the appearance of it. What this way he

was talking about so it's not detrimental appearance like how like what is it a clarity at the end?

Like if it's you have a nice clear beer or is it kind of like, hazy and hard to see through? Yeah.




Okay. So Irish moss is an additive that you can kind of put in at the end of the boil, and it's

literally a moss and it goes from Ireland. Yeah, sure. I don't know. But yeah, it just sort of kind

of has some sort of, we're not chemists by any means. We were meant to say the disclaimer,

definitely more of a chemist than I do. But definitely, like home self taught homebrewers. But

we know that when you put Irish Mohsen. I don't know why, but yields a clear beer. Got it. But

yeah, that means this is such such a wild process. Okay, have you ever made a giant mess?

I've had to boil over Yeah. And that's right, as the beer may have run, or you run them through,

and you have your beer and your boil kettle and you're bringing it up to temperature to boil,

right? It hits this point where it gets a little punchy. And, like, what does punchy mean? You get

this sort of real fine foam layer gets about 190 degrees or so boil is about to 11 as boil. Okay,

sure. So about 180 190 You see this sort of like a real fine, thin, thin foam, go over the top, like

where we're getting there. Yeah. And then all of a sudden, it seems like it's like, boil now. And it

just gets really like crazy. And especially it depends on how much you know, we use propane

burners. So like, how much do we have it cranked? Yeah, and you're better to creep up on it. I

get impatient and crank it. That would be me. Like, I want to I don't want to spend all day doing

this. I gotta get to my oil quick. So I have a tendency of cranking my burner up. But then I have

to remember when I see that I need to start back in my propane off because it's going to boil at

any second. And if you get distracted in the slightest, right? When it does, you look back and

it's just phone is flowing over the pie all over the floor. Like we both use our garage is our

brewery here. And so it's like he got the sticky mess on the floor. And like how much did I just

lose? I don't know. Yeah, I feel like Paul, you had a memory. Yeah.

Paul 57:31

Yeah. I didn't want to share somebody else's. I did see the aftermath of a blow off at the bird.

Avery one time, and it was a it was a disaster. All the way up to Oh, yeah, it was probably 15

feet high. Yes.

Lance Foulis 57:51

Yeah, sometimes the fermentations a little more excitable than you anticipate. And I talked

about the little airlock, you put in some beers, you just know, there tend to be like a heavier

beer, like you talked about raspian, which is like an Imperial Stout. Those tend to ferment a

little more vigorously. And so instead of that little guy, I just got mine at Home Depot, but it's

just a tube that's about it fits perfect. And it's tough in that bottle, and then it runs down and I

just have a little bucket of sanitizer. And because that little tiny hole is not going to do it. And if

you don't anticipate that, yeah, clogs the hole, and then it pops out. And I've had chunky stuff

on Imperial style when I first started brewing, and I came home from work and I had it on my

car. And I was living with mom and dad at the time. I don't know if they knew it or not, but I

cleaned it up before they could see it.

Paul 58:45

That's what's happened. Pre fermentation. Oh, really? Yeah, it's pretty wild. I've never seen

anything like that. But I've done the same thing you've done yeah, with the boy like the what

do they call that boil over. Now, it's, it's called something when I didn't have a blow off to one



once and I never had like, I don't use them anymore, because I have vessels big enough for

that alcohol vapor to go. But if you have it in a tight container, sometimes that can be a recipe

for disaster.

Lance Foulis 59:19

I can't even imagine I'm writing something down. Because I know how I want to do the next

step here. So what we're gonna do now is we are going to transition into the next phase of the

podcast. This is gonna be the last part of this awesome podcast, where we're going to pause

the recording, we are going to get set up because Dustin and Paul brought some home brewed

beer that we get to try and we're really excited to try it and I'm going to ask all the questions

like what the heck hoppy means. Yeah. What was my other thing that I wanted to ask? Yeah,

like the term hoppy and then We got you guys already talked to me about like dry and

everything. So we'll take up we'll take a pause here and then we'll be right back okay,

everybody, we are back and we have the beers that have been home brewed laid out in front of

us, we have four different kinds. I'm gonna, I'm gonna read them. And then if you guys want to

just tell me whatever fun facts you want to tell me about? Actually, let's do this. I'll read them

and then you just tell me about these beers. That's what I'll do. I'll read all four of them. And

then you just tell me what, whatever we want to know about these four beers. So first, we have

the smoked lager. Then we have a pale ale, and we have an old ale. And then we have an oat

Neal Porter, which sounds fascinating. So what's going on with these beers?

Paul 1:01:07

The Lager is the one that takes the longest it's the it's the it's lagered so chills Yes, it fermented

ferments and cold Yep, temperature. And then it has a little slight bit of smoke grains and it's

actually an all German recipe. So all the grains are all German. All the hops are German,

everything. Just tried to do like a real basic. I forget what they call it rush beers. That what they

call smoke. Yeah, yep. Yes,

Lance Foulis 1:01:35

beer Roush rounds, Ross Roush.

Paul 1:01:39

So just a German smoked lager. And you can tell him about that pill because that's really your

Lance Foulis 1:01:45

Yeah, the second one's a pale ale palos, probably one of my favorite styles of beer to drink. I

feel like when I get a pale ale i really like I like it when they're super balanced. I don't want it

super Hoppy, but not super multi. It's something like it's a session beer, you want to drink it?

Over a period of time? What is hoppy mean coffee is that sort of bitterness, bitterness. And so

like, again, it can either be bitter or just overwhelming floral or fruity sort of flavors or aromas.



But when typically when I'm talking about like a balance, and I say it's super Hoppy, I'm talking

like It's bitter. Yeah, a very strong bitterness. So what about the multi multi is more the

sweetness quality of the beer, and those two sort of play together to balance it out? Sure. So a

an IPA would be kind of on that hoppy and where the third one we're going to have is the old

Ale, which has more malt in it. So it's gonna be on the multi-year side with very little hops. Even

in the recipe. It probably has very little hops does multi equal more foam? I'm not really not

necessarily. And what governs how fizzy, carbonated thank you card. What governs that?

Paul 1:03:00

We have suggestions for each style. Yeah, kind of how much pressure?

Lance Foulis 1:03:04

There's like charts that you can look at, like, we force carb. So because we both CAGR beer.

Bottling is very small kegs. Yeah, it's a five gallon keg five gallon, can you?

Paul 1:03:18

Yeah, we used to bottle it was just such a pain. I was Ted you're spending three hours cleaning

bottles and sanitizing the bottle sanitizing albums, and I can't imagine dumping in a keg and

call it a day for it. So

Lance Foulis 1:03:32

kegs are easier to clean. Yeah.

Paul 1:03:35

So yeah, just let them soak.

Dustin 1:03:37

They kind of there's not a ton of parts to okay, really. So you can you take it apart and just you

can either just soak it. My wife bought me this cool contraption for either my birthday last year

Christmas. I can't remember which. But it's a like keg washer for like a homebrewer. Nice. That

also works for the car boys the fermenters because those get kind of gunky, because they're

set down. Yeah. And like I talked about, you get that foamy ring along the top and it leaves this

sort of gunk around the upper edge. Yeah. So before my method of cleaning it was soaking it in

hot water with a brewer. So that's the brewer soaps formulated to sort of break down that was

residue leftover from brewing. Yeah. And so to fill that thing up, that's like six gallons of water,

cheese and it's hot water. So you're using like gas or electricity to heat the water and it's just

sitting there and then literally, you're just gonna dump it out. Yeah, so I always hated how

much water and to make beer you go through so much water. It's crazy between like to make a





five gallon batch of beer. Typically, you're going to end the recipe you're going to use close to

10 gallons. And that's why it was your, your grain absorbs it when you mash because you don't

get all the water back. Whatever you put in. You're only getting gonna get part of that back.

When you put the hops in there that's going to absorb some of it. Like I said, there's parched

leave behind. Yeah, so but yeah, sorry, kind of sidetracked. No, no Okay, eggs again, it's like

the thing that I'm learning so much. So like there's there's just so much here. So this is this is

good. I don't even remember we were talking about the old, sorry. But while you're talking

about the Pale Ale and talking about liking it to be kind of balanced between hoppy and, and

multi, and actually this particular recipe, I have a name for its special lady friend, and I sort of

formulated it or made the recipe to my wife's tastes. She doesn't always like a pale ale,

especially the more traditional pale ales are those kinds of piney? grassy? Like, can you name a

couple beers that Sierra Nevada is like? Oh, okay. That's probably the most common well

known Pale Ale. And

Paul 1:05:43

it's funny is I think anybody that starts brewing, they have to make something that their wife

likes. Yeah. So like, yeah. Hey,

Lance Foulis 1:05:50

everyone, you have to justify your time. Right? And you're in the the time accurate? Yeah.

Paul 1:05:58

We actually met the guy, the first time Kim ever liked a beer. She liked a beat a purple haze.

And we actually met the guy that no way that beer we were just randomly at a brewery in

North Carolina, and this guy comes up and I'm telling him, he's like, oh, yeah, that was my

beer. And I'm like, There's no way that's true story. And I looked at my bright there on my

phones, like Yeah, that's Tim. So guy that started

Lance Foulis 1:06:21

from a bit up. That's, that's amazing. Oh, my gosh, um, I had a question and I lost it. So we can

just continue with what we do on do old al now. Tell me about old ale. Old ale is a, it came from

a Irish Red recipe I've Yeah, Irish Red Ale recipe that I'm always tweaking. And this particular

batch, I switched up the yeast. And actually, I had a conundrum where it got more sugar than I

expected. So there's sort of a ratio of how much yeast you have to put in based on the sugar.

And so I only bought enough yeast for the amount of sugar I expected God and so I had to go

back to the brew store. And of course, they were out of the beast that I used. And I had to grab

another one. So I kind of have accidentally blended or unintentionally blended yeast to which

that happens. You can make make a beer that way. How did you What did you know that there

was too much sugar. There's at the we didn't really talk about this. They're sort of numbers you

can look at to evaluate how much sugar you got out of the batch during the process. Yeah, so

after before you typically, at the very end, when you get it into the fermenter. As you're moving

it into the fermenter, we have this sort of really tall flask, and we put some in that. And then



there's this we, we typically use a tool called a hydrometer. And it's a big, it's a long glass tube.

So like a foot long. 10 inches, 10 inches, and then it has a little bit of some sort of like pewter

metal in the bottom to weight it. And then in the middle, somehow they've scrolled up paper

and have it in this enclosed glass little thing, just but that paper has a gauge on it, like a scale.

Okay, and so you put it in that flask, and you see what level it floats at. And then you get a

number we use typically use what's called specific gravity. So typically, a beer would be like

1052, it'd be 1.052 would be the reading. Okay, but typically brewers would say 1052 was my,

my original gravity. Got it. And so that kind of then from that, you can determine how much

sugar you

Paul 1:08:34

got out of your batch. Yeah, you wait till the end. And then you measure it again. Yeah, so after

a ton of sugar that's dissipated, or yeah,

Lance Foulis 1:08:43

whatever the guy eaten by the yeast. So the, the, the solution will be less dense. So that scale

will drop lower into the solution, which is your beer. Okay, last point. And so you'll have two

numbers, the original gravity and then your final gravity, which is in the ballpark of like 1012.

Okay, and then you kind of do some math and you're like, oh, I have a 5.2% beer God and

that's sort of how you can calculate your ABV or and that that percentage that you just said, is

that alcohol content? Alcohol by volume? Yeah. Alcohol by volume, ABV, a BV. Oh, I've seen

that acronym before. Yeah, I think about anything that's over 5%. They're supposed to put it on

the label. If you're under 5%, they don't have to disclose it on like the recipe that we've been

talking about. I think that was like nine, nine or 10. Probably yeah, that

Paul 1:09:33

was pretty. I remember that one at spaziosa. Yeah, John was like, you gotta try this. Try like,

that's terrible.

Lance Foulis 1:09:42

You're very syrupy and thick. A lot of a lot of heaviness in the mouth. I call those high gravity

beers to um, to honestly trying to remember like, I think, Oh, I remember somebody told me

about line in Google because Leinenkugel wasn't in Columbus, and then it got here and there

was somebody that I worked with again when I was at teller in a bank. It's really funny because

when you start drinking beer and people find out that you drink beer, they just tell you stuff

and you get a bunch of information like, oh go to Anderson's they have an amazing, there's just

like a random purse that was like, Oh, you want to try beers? Go to Anderson's, and just they

have a whole thing of imports and just try stuff. So I remember oh, what's the what's the?

There? There's a one from Britain. That's kind of popular. I think it has like a golden label. Um, I

don't know. It doesn't matter. I might remember it later. But that was one of my favorites to get

at at the Anderson's that in Sapporo that we already mentioned. Okay, oatmeal Porter, the

oatmeal Porter is porters are typically a darker bear. Somewhere like the brown range to



approaching black. It looks to me similar to again, us. Yes, it's a little lighter. If you hold them to

the light, you can typically see some the light travels through it. Yeah, it has sort of a brown or

ambery quality. Yep. Where again, you're not going to see light through that. And it's likely it's

very, very black. Yeah, and porters and stouts are very similar. In my opinion. stouts tend to be

they can be drier, or they don't have that sort of residual mouth after flavor aftertaste. And

then I think it comes down to the recipe and the grains you put in that release if you're splitting

hairs between porters and stouts. Okay

Paul 1:11:25

to be less alcohol and

Lance Foulis 1:11:26

yeah, and then a stout uses a an unmelted grain grains. So they don't do that sort of jumpstart

of the starting the seed to sprout, but they do. Roast it, okay, so it gets those really dark, kind

of like roasting a coffee bean. And that's sort of where you get your colors of beer to. Barley is

typically your grain that you're using. And then your base grains are very light in color. And

then they some of them though roast. And as they roast they carmelize. So you're not doing

the roasting. Now that's the the grain we buy at the brew stores. It's already been roasted

already. But there's like you buy one it's like it's called Crystal 60. And the 60 refers to how

long it's been roasted and how dark it is. Got it. And that will give you an idea of how dark your

final product will be. Got it. Okay. Okay, like this particular one has Crystal 60 added to it.

Okay, so it's going to have more of like an orangey. Appearance, okay. are golden. Okay, well,

I'm really excited. I remember, I think it was when I got my private pilot's license. We went to, I

believe it was downtown. And I got it. It was like a flight. I don't know if that's what you call but

it was like in shock glasses. 21 different flavors, and it was too much. But there was one, I

saved it like close to the end. And it had like strawberry infused in it. And I didn't like it at all.

But I was amazed that you could infuse beer with strawberries. Yeah, so the amount of flavor

control that you have when you're brewing is amazing. I have like one just general question

before we get into this. Do you guys even like beer at a store? Yeah, you do? Yeah, it's, it's sad

how much beer I still buy. Because we do we brew a good amount. And I usually have like we

both have we call it a kegerator where those small kegs we have fit into them. And mine has

like four handles on it. So I have four of those little kegs and a K grater. And but I'm still always

buying stuff like I've never seen that before. And is that the thing that has like the hose

attached to it with the thing and then like that's how you get it? Yeah, mine. Like you literally

drill a hole through the front door. So it's like at the bar like a tap handle. Yeah. sticks out the

front of it. Okay, that's cool. Has four on it. Hey, Paul's up

Paul 1:13:45

to him. And I don't drink much at home. Actually. We do. Yeah,

Lance Foulis 1:13:49

they they go out.



Paul 1:13:51

breweries. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, I get that big discount from work I try. So well. It's

Kim 1:13:59

research. I mean, trying other beers. It'd be kind of ignorant to do your own thing forever and

ever. Never not like creating in a vacuum is right. You want to be inspired. So Paul, what I

would go on vacations like Portland, Oregon, Asheville, North Carolina. Majority. Oh, yeah.

Denver, Denver. Yeah, we're going to 16 breweries. Wow. So

Paul 1:14:17

you're more you're walking it?

Kim 1:14:19

Yeah, I mean, yeah,

Lance Foulis 1:14:20

that sounds Oh, I

Kim 1:14:21

have 50 beers this week. How am I alive? But it's really cool. Because you're you're getting to

experience what does it feel like to walk into this brewery? What What kind of people are here?

What kind of music are they playing? How are they in their community? Like brewing? The

industry is just really cool. And then you're going to get to try all the different beers that you

maybe never it's like art you have never experienced? That person started brewing beer and

decided to share it with somebody because it

Lance Foulis 1:14:50

has that person's hand on it. Yeah, they're in sprint. Alright, you can't help. That's a good way

to put that. Okay, well Let's go ahead and try so we're going to go left to right so to start off

with a smoked lager it smells amazing That's delicious. That's delicious. Now I'm going to use

not official speak here as I describe it, but to me it tastes very refreshing, a little buttery. taste

a little buttery to me. And I mean that in a good way because I don't usually like butter. But

that's how I'm that's how I'm describing. Smooth and bright. That's That's my Kim's input. She's

not mic. Oh, hey, we have no equipment, everybody. We have a fourth mic now finally. So

that's why we're able to have three guests. Which is mostly because of my brother. He made a






contribution. So shout out to Shawn. Thank you, Shawn. He listens to this podcast, obviously,

my brother and he wanted to donate to help. So he donated over the holiday and so we were

able to it okay, so Kim just said if you want to donate to us, because eventually we want to get

like cameras and everything going to so if you want to donate to us, you can direct message

either of us, I guess. Anyways,

Kim 1:16:17

cheers to brother and other people.

Lance Foulis 1:16:24

Yeah, it's this is this is delicious. It's not too bubbly. It's refreshing. It's smooth. Am I using right

terms at all here to describe? Yeah, like, I want to drink this in the summer. Yes, yes. Yeah, it

tastes like a good summer beer.

Paul 1:16:41

I really like this. Is this a pillow or an IPA? That

Lance Foulis 1:16:45

it's more of a pale ale? Yeah. Does that. So the second one? Yeah,

Paul 1:16:49

this one. Like, it really smells very florally when I'm smelling it, but when I'm tasting it, it has

like a lot of fruit.

Lance Foulis 1:17:01

Yeah. Oh, wow. I see what you're saying. And that that was part of Taylor. This is the one that I

tailored to my wife's days, Morgan's. That she favored more of like what we'd call an East Coast

IPA, they're more fruity. Rather than those sort of like earthy flavors and piney flavors, she likes

the brighter fruit here. So I picked specific hops. And again, I use them later in the boil. So

we're not getting that bitterness, we're getting all those nice fruity qualities out of it. I used that

there's Citra Calypso and Hall melon are those are hops, those are all high hop varieties. And

there's hundreds of different varieties and each one lends its own character and do we know if

all of the hops come from a hop? Yeah, I know there are like that's a thing. Yeah. Cuz I think I

heard something where all apples come from a apple Right? Or, or something like where they

they they graft. You know what to say? You know, I'm saying yeah, so I was just wondering like,

maybe I know that like some hops that we use that their their laboratory created at this point,




sure, to get those certain characters. So I was just reading something today where it's I can't

remember what hops I was reading about. But it was explaining like, this is a daughter of a

cascade. It might have been the Calypso. I could be wrong, though. But it was saying that

Paul 1:18:25

Centennial is an offshoot of cascade. So like you have super

Lance Foulis 1:18:29

Yeah. And then I think there are like a hand supercast they call them the noble hops. And I

think those are kind of like the originals. Those are usually using like English beers. That's

awesome. Our kids are getting a little stir crazy. So kind of coming up and down is usually we

can get away with about an hour to an hour and a half. We're doing good because we took a

break everything we're in our 19th So okay, before I taste another beer, I just What do I do like

a nice squiggle water switch. I switch a bit and kind of Cleanse the palate. Okay.

Kim 1:19:02

Do a little dance,

Lance Foulis 1:19:03

do a little dance hop around. We're doing all this with headphones on our heads with wires

connected so we're doing some maneuvering here, but I'm trying the Pale Ale now. And this is

your brew. Yeah, it was the smoked lager your brew

Paul 1:19:17

Yeah, I made this actually, I think these are this is actually our recipe together right.

Lance Foulis 1:19:24

I think it's more your recipe. We brewed it to go first time, but it was delicious. Yeah, that's


Paul 1:19:31

It's surprising the the you said it was Hall melon. Hall melon is the dry hot it has almost a


Lance Foulis 1:19:38





Lance Foulis 1:19:38

taste. And that's where it gets the name it's supposed to impart like cantaloupe passion for the

Pale Ale. The yeah that the final dry hop hop that goes in. It's called a hall melon. And it's

supposed to do that like pass through

Paul 1:19:54

the smell is very floral onyx stone fruit.

Lance Foulis 1:19:56

How do you get the floor? That is amazing. So I've been ever smelled beer before? I don't think.

But I'm smelling the Pale Ale and it does smell very. i To your point florally. How do you get



That's a late addition, late

Lance Foulis 1:20:11

addition. So that's where that dry hop comes in, where you're putting the hot after

fermentation is all done. I typically do it five days before I'm going to keg. Okay, that's when I

add that last dose of hops. Okay, and let it just kind of chill out for five days and then move it

over to the keg. Okay. I mean, yeah, this is delicious. That there's like a there's an after flavor

that happens that you don't get initially. But when I when I first take the initial sip, it's it has

more carbonation. Let me do let me do another one. Yeah, like, as I breathe like it's a very

dynamic type of a flavor. I feel like I'm getting did you try the Paleo? Yep. Second one. Yeah, it's

it's amazing, because I thought this was amazing. And I think I might like this one more. So

kudos. Thanks for making this for your wife. Yeah.

Kim 1:21:13

Well, Morgan, I It's funny, because you're saying, Am I saying these words right. Can I be you're

always right. sure that it's your experience. No one can take that away from you wherever

you're getting from it is right.

Lance Foulis 1:21:24

It's what it feels like. Feels like woodsy like organic like earthy. Yeah, I think that might be the

the longer hop the one that's in there for the hour that adds the the bitterness is a central hot

but I think that's bringing it that more of like the bitter earthiness, so that's okay. So the terms

are kind of making sense. Okay. I want to keep drinking that one, but we'll keep moving on all

ale. I'm trying not to make too many like mouth drinking rose sounds.



Kim 1:22:02

Oh, what are you trying to avoid? I'll do it for you.

Lance Foulis 1:22:07

Okay, so I'm going to try the OLED panel now. And it looks amazing. I should be talking about

the looks because you guys not on video. But it looks like they get darker left to right. Yep,

that's or aiming this old ale. It has like a reddish color to it where the other two are more very

bright sunlight type of color. And it's got a nice, I always like that, like whenever a beer had.

Whatever you call this. It's actually the lace the lacing especially like as you drink the beer and

it follows down the glass. That's how this that's where it comes from lacing right there. Okay, so

new term lacing everybody what that is is like as you're drinking it, and that foam cling means

to the side. I never heard that term before. All right. Oh, what is this the one with a coffee? No,

no, I didn't bring the coffee. What is that? It's that English yeast that I ended up blending. So

you get these kind of like, dried fruit, fruitiness qualities you have now which, like I said, I

tended it to be an Irish Red Ale, which don't have those characteristics at all. So like, as a home

brewer, you don't necessarily have to care what you call your beer. Sure. But

Paul 1:23:18

when it comes to if you're trying to send

Lance Foulis 1:23:20

petition, which is legit like the we've we've entered, there's a national homebrew competition

that happens every year. There's like an organization called the American home brewers

association where it changes your it's yeah, there's every year they knew they did it earlier. But

I entered a couple beers last Minneapolis

Paul 1:23:37

last year,

Lance Foulis 1:23:38

I think it was and like, it's just so difficult and expensive to send stuff out to that. Oh, no doubt.

Yeah. And technically you're it's against the law to ship alcohol through the United States mail

and postal service. So So tell me how you do it. You can but I can say that you're supposed to.

You're supposed to use a private carrier. So like hire somebody and like like like UPS your first

year, we entered the competition trade UPS busted. They call this and said come pick up your

beer. So we had to drive back opener boxes.




Paul 1:24:20

I told him it was yeast. Sam. Yeah, he's

Lance Foulis 1:24:23

the code. How did they figure it? Did they legit opened it up? Yeah, there's ups. Now it was UPS

Yeah. I've used some other carriers that don't have an open packages. So I go with them. Like

could you pay me to do it? Yeah, or not pay me just ask me. I think it's because of the obviously

alcohol is an age restricted item. So they want to make sure you're not shipping it to some kid

in Colorado. Yeah. Early. No. They and by using that private carrier. Or there's I think you can

and I think things are getting a lot more lackadaisical because you didn't get like oh mail order


Kim 1:24:59

Now they can now They've had

Lance Foulis 1:25:01

to change. Everything's changed. But yeah. But yeah, it's all about that age restricted item and

making sure that the place that sent it was old enough. And the people that are received

receiving it are old enough to have it. I think that's where it really comes from and UPS or USPS

doesn't really, they just drop packages off and leave. They're not verifying anything. Right,

right. I mean, this is delicious. I'm trying to think about how to describe this old Ale, but yeah,

like, and I started this as a good example of making something and then it didn't turn out how

you wanted it. But it's not a dumper. Like he still drink it, just you might call it something

different. When you explain it to somebody did you say this is multi? That's what yeah, this

would be on the multi. So there's very little hops in the recipe. It's just the really the only hops

and there is the purpose to bitter it to counter that maltiness to balance. So there's no late

adaption knob so I'm not trying to get the smell of the hop in there. I'm not trying to get the

really the flavor of the hop. I just want that bitterness. Yeah, to counteract the multi quality, the

sweetness of the beer. Yeah, I mean, it's, again, delicious. They're all very delicious in their own

extremely unique way. I feel like it's pretty sweet. What did you think about the old ale? Like

what you said, Come talking to Mike come talking to me. Like fuzzier. You can. It's fizzy? Yeah.

Anything? Yeah. The maltiness I can taste them. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, it's it's delicious. We're

figuring out how to do this with four mics and five people. Okay, I want to try the oatmeal

Porter now. The prettiest? You do? Why do you think it's the prettiest? Yeah, this one is the

darker, darkest color.

Kim 1:26:48

Like Garnett?




Paul 1:26:50

Yeah, this is.

Lance Foulis 1:26:51

Is that a stone? It is? It is. It's so funny because like we're just doing these interesting pauses. I

just wonder what it would be like to be a listener?

Paul 1:26:59

Well, at times the reporters will have like a toastiness. And I think you still get that in the back

of your throat with this one. But the oatmeal really Mel's? Yeah, I think it is so is it out?

Lance Foulis 1:27:11

So if you really like That's amazing. Yeah. So really, I legitimately when we when we make this,

this last time I made it. I pulled the white by off brand. But the quick outs that I make my

daughter for breakfast, I weighed out a pound of that and throw it in my recipe. So I mean, it's

just like the rolled oats you buy at the grocery store. They call them quick outs. Yeah. So that

we have some in the front. Yeah. And so there's a pound of that, that gets added to the end of

this recipe. And the end game is the five gallons. Well, it's the that's the volume of the liquid at

the end. Yeah, at the end. Okay, that's, that's amazing. That's

Kim 1:27:52

and technically, you've made oatmeal bears in the past to kind of address the gluten free.

Paul 1:27:58

Yeah, I thought that they were gluten free, but they're not really Oh, there are


some like, was it so me

Kim 1:28:05

there was

Paul 1:28:08

I did use I forget what I use spelt. And I felt maybe that had something I can't remember. It's







I did use I forget what I use spelt. And I felt maybe that had something I can't remember. It's

been a while but I did make oatmeal beer. And they're actually really good. Yeah, wasn't the

point quite bare weight mirrors? Yeah.

Lance Foulis 1:28:23

Does anybody have a gluten free beer? Is that even possible? They have one there's the brand

name is called a mission. And they actually subtract the gluten through some sort of process

cheese. But there are bears that you can get are just naturally gluten free, but they will not

have barley in it. That's going to have grains like sorghum. I don't know if I've ever tried one.

Paul 1:28:46

You know, when I made my own beer, I think I added a little bit of wheat into it to get some

head retention and might be why it wasn't. Yeah, wheat is not. But it was very gluten reduced, I

think. Yeah. If you weren't like, if you didn't have

Lance Foulis 1:29:01

like a severe adverse reaction to gluten, it would be a better, better alternative.

Paul 1:29:07

We've actually talked about revisiting that because I started with a base and then one year I

made it with blueberry. And I was thinking about doing like an apple cinnamon version of it.

Apple Cinnamon, yeah. Without so I think it'd be really wow,

Kim 1:29:18

here for breakfast.

Lance Foulis 1:29:23

That's okay, so I hadn't you just said for breakfast, so I have to go but I have to go back to

something you guys had said. I mean, like there's so many things in my mind right now. But

there was a really good clip that I saw. I'm trying to remember i I probably won't be able to

remember the name. I got to look this up. There was a great clip of the Joe Rogan Paguera

podcast that I saw a while ago and his guests I don't I've never heard of the guests before, but

they were talking about this guy that stopped drinking caffeine like he took caffeine out of his

diet for three months and Then he went back and had a cup of coffee after that three months,

and he said that it was like a psychedelic type of experience. And then he took it. And then he

started talking about the history of coffee. And they even brought in like beer. What you guys

were talking about that, like, back in the day, all these people just drink more beer than water

because it was safer to drink the beer than it was the water. So like everybody was just walking




around with a buzz. And then he talked about, like, how people came up with how they came

up with the idea of a coffee break. And it made people more efficient at work. Anyway, yeah,

I'm looking this up right now.

Kim 1:30:41

And then Coca Cola just

Lance Foulis 1:30:45

destroyed. It's a Michael Polen P O L L. A N. What Michael Poland learned from quitting caffeine

for three months. You think he's exclusively on Spotify? So I've been meaning to go back and

like listen to the whole episode, because I don't know what all they were talking about. But

what they talked about in this 14 minute clip on YouTube was quitting caffeine. Anyway, yeah.

Back in the day, apparently, people used to drink more beer than water. Yeah. And again, it

comes down to like water quality that was available. And then you got like this for sort of like

temperance and prohibitions come along, is because then they started have figured out Oh, it's

the boiling process. And so he started making key teas and coffees, which was an alternative to

the beer, which was the water safe because it's been boiled. So then you have teetotallers,

which are anti beer people. And they they practice temperance, or like, well, beer has no place

anymore. It's completely we can just do away with it. Because now we can drink tea and

everything's safe. But then we're like, we don't want to stop drinking beer because it's good.

Because it's tasty. So but we're experiencing right now. It's really funny. Like these kinds of

little things that you learn about that. are neat little facts that you've never heard before. I'm

still trying to figure out how to describe this last one is oatmeal Porter. It like the other three? It

is delicious. It's very smooth.

Kim 1:32:10

It well, some characteristics is what doesn't it? Have? You've experienced the bitterness at the

back end of things that doesn't have this? No, no, right? You're just kind of getting more of that.

I don't know part of the tongue. Like it's not in the back of bitterness.

Lance Foulis 1:32:28

That's right. You taste things. Yeah. Different on different parts of your tongue. Different yams.

It tastes to me like a good winter beer. Yeah, like it feels like it. Yeah. Like a blanket. Yeah.

Good face to it. Yes. I like to. Not too much.

Paul 1:32:50

Yeah, he was actually afraid that he didn't get enough on this the other day.

Lance Foulis 1:32:54




Lance Foulis 1:32:54

Yeah. Actually, kind of yesterday I was I turned up because I have to. In order to get the beer

out of the keg, you have to displace air. So we in to get the beer fizzy. We add carbon dioxide

to it. So we have tanks of co2. Why are you adding it in the keg of beer? Yeah. And that's how

we get it fizzy. An alternative if you bottle part of the bottling process is adding just a little bit

more sugar, right as you're bottling it. And then after you get it all bottled the the yeast that's

still kind of hanging out, you get little you still have little tiny bits of yeast hanging out here

beer. And that little bit of yeast will eat that little bit of sugar and carbonate it and it's bottled

so it has nowhere to go. So it infuses into the solution or the beer. So that's how you get it's

called bottle conditioning beer. Actually Sierra Nevada, they still bottle and can condition

everything that's there. It's not forest carved. Sierra Nevada Pale Ale is whatever the Bessel it's

in, they add sugar or this called priming sugar, and then package it either in keg bottle or can

and then it has to sit for at least about a month or so three weeks. Oh, wow, for that kind of

kick in. And you have to have your math pretty much on if you add too much sugar, you have a

lot of cakes exploding, bottle shattering or you're under carved and it's not as fizzy. And that's

the fizziness as part of the experience of beer that will now not you know back in the day but

was really interesting thing about that is that they because of the branding of a big beer like

that is that you have to have every bottle consistence super consistent super spot on. Yeah, it's

kind of fun for you guys. Maybe if it doesn't turn out the exact way that you want it to because

we just discovered something. Have you ever had something not turn out the way that you

wanted it to? And we're able to figure out how it happened. Yeah, you could replicate it. Well,

we're talking about the Irish Red today. And I just I just called it an English ale because they

have fruity flavors and a more an Irish wooden. Yeah, so just easy as saying name. I think we

were talking about one.

Paul 1:35:03

We haven't done many beers, but there was one I made. Like, are they gonna talk about this?

This was a sour beer. And I don't, I still don't know what happened. It smelled like a sweat sock.

I guess really. And I brought it to some friends of mine who worked at a brewery. I'm like, Hey,

what the heck is wrong with this? Is it just like oxidized or what? And like, one of my friends it

was the brewer the time he's tasting he's like, Yeah, even though it smells really terrible. It

actually tastes

Kim 1:35:37

great. It just smelled weird. Yeah, it was fine. You did especially a sour.

Paul 1:35:46

That was the one beer that I definitely dumped. I did not drink. Yeah,

Dustin 1:35:50

one. But while I was thinking that one, the particular one I was thinking about was the Arizona

iced tea.





Paul 1:35:57

Oh, yeah, I made one. I tried to make a Shandy. And I just added a shandy is just juice or tea or

whatever. Just added tea to it. And it's just like it called it a sham. Just never was good.

Dustin 1:36:09

Good idea. But yeah, we took the beer that we were like near, like let's make it a Shandy.

Because a shandy is you take beer and you either add lemonade or a tea to it got it makes it a

Shandy. There's going to be a shandy now and we threw some Arizona iced tea in there and

called it a day. Oh, that's amazing. But

Paul 1:36:25

I remember a brewery after I had let them try that sour beer. They actually had a similar

problem. Not maybe as bad smelling as mine. But they just added fruit to it and served. Just

cover it up and just yeah, just kind of hide that smell. Yeah. All right.

Kim 1:36:44

And what make you sick, but the experience is strange. Yeah.

Dustin 1:36:47

And kind of continue on this sort of vein and conversation we you'd asked what IPA stands for?

Yeah. So the India Pale Ale. Yeah. And what it was, is it was like, the or the story I've heard is

that Britain was colonizing India at the time. And they were the soldiers and civilians living

there wanted beer. Yeah, they would have to ship it. And it's a pretty good boat ride. Yeah. And

so they were getting the beer and it got there. And they're like, this is terrible. And so they

some they kind of knew that hops have preservative qualities. If nothing else, if you put enough

hops in it, it'll cover up kind of the skanky taste. And so they started kind of adding a lot more

hops to the beer. Yeah. And it would be the India export beer. And then eventually just keeps

getting boiled down to was an India Pale Ale, and then it became an IPA. And then that's sort of

the story. I don't know how valid that is. But it's the that's the beer more that goes with an IPA.


Kim 1:37:48

I love boiling. I'm sorry. It was it spoiling. Yeah.


Or I got a taste I think took the time to







Or I got a taste I think took the time to

Paul 1:37:54

grade. Like if you have a pale ale they tell you to drink it fresh.

Lance Foulis 1:37:59

And actually, yeah, a pale ale now you want to drink quick. Like it's, that's when you're going to

get all those great flake fruit flavors. If you let it hang out of that the hops diminishes, like Paul

said, it's sort of the more it sits, the less sort of character that that has. It's interesting, I'm

tasting something different in the Pale Ale now. Yeah, yeah. than what I did. And it's fun when

you like when you drink beer, it really like what you pair it with. If you're eating, there was a

pizza place that used to exist in Columbus, it's not there anymore. And they serve like

Columbia, or Chicago style deep dish. Mm hmm. And we get there one of their pizzas their

breadsticks or something. And we realize if we ordered a Budweiser when you drink it, you get

this crazy banana after flavor. Weird, and my wife notice it right off the bat. And she's like, does

this taste like a banana to you? And we're eating the same thing. And I took it. I was like, Yeah,

it's crazy. And I was like, it's probably because what we're eating is influencing, like, it's sort of

the whole the flavors are mixing together. And but yeah, she calls them I think we forget what

she called, like banana light, or something like that. She's like, let's go get pizza and some

banana. Like. I love that. Okay, so we are getting late in time. So I wanted to the last thing I

want to talk about is the the idea that you guys might create or, like, do something. Do you

guys want to talk about that?

Paul 1:39:27

Sure. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I went back to school for business not that long ago. Seems like

forever. It's only right. 2014 Was that like eight years? Yeah. Yeah. So I finished and I went to

business school with the idea of opening a business not knowing what it would be. Just, I didn't I

always wanted to own my dad owned his own business. It's a lifestyle. Yes, a lot of work. But I

you know, I always liked it and It first I thought maybe it would just be like taxes, don't people's

taxes or something. But as I kept doing the beer, I was like, you know, this is actually doable. I

mean, we know how to brew beer. It's not like crazy hard to do. And you know, a business

scale, you know, there is a lot of profit in it. So maybe we should check into like doing this. So

when he started brewing with me, well, when I finally got him to start brewing with me, I was

like, gave him this idea. And we just have been right on with it in our heads for a while we've

invested some money into it, and kind of brought him along to help us understand marketing,

because neither one of us are marketing. We can make beer, but we're not. Yeah, Mark. Right.

So yeah. So that's where we're at. I mean, we're still in the beginning stages of it. But we'd like

to see, I think we could do something with it. Sure.

Lance Foulis 1:40:51

I think initially, we when we kind of kicked around the idea. And it was, I think, like with most

ideas, you want to do it well, but you want to do it quick. Yeah. So like, well, let's open this

brewery. And we can do it this way. And then we realized that some of the ideas we had to



save money wasn't really a good idea in the long run. So that the time was kind of spread out.

But from when we initially started to now, but I think we've sort of and then COVID it of course,

yes. Like there are a number right now. Yeah. But there's been a handful in Congress that have

and they've opened, really, and they relied on the home delivery. And they really worked and

hustled I'm sure to make it move along. Yeah. And I'm sure they're getting the payback now, of

all that work. Now people can actually go to their tap room and try their beer right there in

person. I think we realized I think initially it was just we're going to be a microbrewery. And I

think at the time we started talking about it, there was only about 20 in Columbus. Really?

That's it? We're up to like 40. Yeah, this is over the course of like five years. Yeah. And so it's

just like, but now we realize that's not going to be enough. We need to stand out a little bit.

Yeah. So we're the the kind of the new approach to this business plan that we're kind of

heading, the direction we're heading is adding more of our personal personalities and our

backgrounds into it. Yeah. And we don't really want to like let the cat out of the bag. Yeah, but

also, we'll leave it at that. But we want to be a little bit more than just a microbrewery. But we

want to be more of an experience when you brewery so we'll leave it there. Yeah. I love that.

Anything to add Kim?

Kim 1:42:27

Yes. Yeah. I mean, so before, I mean, like the brewers are gonna think about the product most

of the time. Yeah, that's what they have their hands on. That's what they're passionate about.

It's their art. Yeah, it's their craft. So when it comes, but what we started to realize with some of

the travels that I kind of pre mentioned, oh, this is a heavy metal bar. Oh, this is grandma's

house. That was a really, I love that one.

Lance Foulis 1:42:52

That's the name of a microbe. Yeah, yeah, grandma's house.

Kim 1:42:55

And you felt like you're going into grandma's house. She saw the old, like vintage cups with the

cool little characters on it, like ET game, and you're like, This is

Paul 1:43:02

the jelly jars.

Kim 1:43:04

It was awesome. That's awesome. So they all have these like, characteristics. It was like

meeting a person. That's what a business should have. Yes, have a good product. But you also

should kind of get an idea of who made this thing. Yeah. It's not all product, even though that is

what's gonna keep people there and make them enjoy it. There's a lot more to keep the doors

of a brewery than just what you're selling. It does. I mean, that's what you're selling. But





there's more to it. Yeah. So the more that they kept talking about it, and I bought in right.

There backgrounds are really cool. Like, yeah, fine. Masters of Fine Art. Yeah. He was in a band.

You know, you know, I I'm a fine artist. You know, I'm a graphic artist. So yep. We there's a lot

of art and craft to this. Yeah. How do you and then you want to be a part of community? Yep.

So which community is that? Oh, the ones who were already a part of arts and crafts, you

know, like, yeah, so maybe I'm letting out a little bit. But this is our background of just the

creative. The creativity. I mean, that's, that's not letting out too much. I don't think this is


Lance Foulis 1:44:07

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love I love that. By the way. What did you play in the band? I play bass,

your bass player. That's cool. What type of music?

Paul 1:44:18

I'd say like, new wave. Aggressive rock. Yeah.

Kim 1:44:22

Okay, but not rush. Yet, but

Lance Foulis 1:44:24

not rush killers before killers.

Kim 1:44:25

I don't know how they were they were on to something.

Lance Foulis 1:44:30

That's awesome. Okay. Well, you guys, I could probably talk to you for the rest of the afternoon.

We're getting close to two hours here. I don't I didn't see anything I would particularly want to

cut out but I can't thank you enough. This was one of the most fun podcast we've done. The

beer is delicious. Thank you. Cool. I really hope that you guys get to do what you're aiming to

do. And I can't wait to see what comes of it. So thanks so much for coming on. I hope you guys

come back at some point and we can do this Again tha

Lance is a blogger and podcaster encouraging others to be a listener and a learning in the things we don't yet know about.