SPEAKERS
Lance Foulis, Paul, Kim, Dustin
Paul 00:00
What's funny is I think anybody that starts brewing they have to make something that their
wife likes. Yes, like Yeah. Hey, everyone, you
Lance Foulis 00:06
have to justify your time right and your time. Accurate yeah hello everybody and welcome to
Lance lots roundtable today we are going to go on a journey talking about beer. I turned 21 Just
a little while ago, it wasn't very many years ago at all that I turned 21. And I'd never had a beer
before I turned 21. I was a bit of a rule follower, I guess you could say. But I remember when I
turned 21 I was working at a bank as a bank teller part time while I was going to college, and I
was studying aviation, so I was in flight school. And I remember everybody in the bank knew
there was even customers that came in that knew I was turning 21. And there was a level of
excitement because everybody knew I hadn't had a beer yet. So when it came time for my
birthday, we had one of the girls that I worked with, she brought me a St Pauli girl with like a
bow tied around it and somebody else brought me bought me a Killians Irish Red. And then
there was other people that just like, bought me like different kinds of beer. So when I turned
21, I got to try all these different kinds of beer Killians Irish Red, that was the very first one that
I had. And I really liked it. Later on, I developed a taste that I didn't like it so much. And the St.
Pauli girl, I don't know if it was because it was like a paler ale or something. But I did not like
the taste of that for my first beer. And I remember a couple friends took me out and like we we
we just went and we tried like different beers. I can remember with my friends and I we then
kind of went on a little bit of a journey a couple friends and I we really just liked beer. So we
would go and we would just try different kinds of beers. And I remember for different people's
birthdays, we'd go to a Japanese steakhouse. And I remember having a Sapporo which is a
Japanese beer and it was so delicious. And then I remember there was this little, this little shop
on a strip mall, I guess I should say store. And I think before it was popular, and maybe even a
thing because you can do it now. But you could go in there, and they had a whole wall of
coolers, you could pick up your little six pack thing. And you could go just pick your own bottles
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that you want. And we would literally create our own six packs, then we'd go home and take it
and try it figure out which ones we liked. Usually, we would just pick what we wanted based on
what the bottle looked like. So we judge the book by its cover. And then I can remember, there
was a really great little store called the Anderson's General Store, and they had a great
selection of the air, you could actually get like Sapporo there and all this different like beer. And
in addition to all of those different types of beer adventures, there was a couple like pubs that
we would that we would frequent. There was old bagging the old pub in Wellington on High
Street, we used to go there all the time. And they would just have a great list of different beers
that you could try. And again, we couldn't see the bottle names. So we went by the name, I
should say didn't we didn't see like any like bottles. So we picked based on the name. And I
remember one of my friends, he always got this one called RAS Putin and it had a very high
alcohol content. So anyway, those were a lot. Oh, and then there was this really, really great
pub in Dublin. I think it was called Yeah, it was called Brazen Head. I actually had to text my
brother and one of my friends that we used to, we used to go there. But it was amazing.
Because back before some law got passed, you could actually take pipes in there. Because we
were those kinds of people, we would take our pipes in and think that we were Gandalf the
wizard or something, we would sit down and we would order our beers and we would smoke our
pipes. But there was this really cool like back room that had a fireplace. I don't think the
fireplace was running or anything. But we would try to go get that room before anybody else.
And we would have a couple pints of beer and we would smoke our pipes. And it was a great
time that that place was called Brazen Head. And it was rumored that they had brought pieces
of a pub from Ireland over. I don't know if that's true, the more in my older years. I don't I don't
believe as many things as I did back then. But I definitely believe that they just disassembled a
pub and then brought it to Dublin, Ohio for some reason when I was younger. And then lat the
last story I guess I'll share is there was a good friend of mine. We used to go over to his house
to win like, again college years single. So me and a couple guys would go over to his house in
Worthington and we would sit down around a fire and we would we would drink bourbon. We
would drink beer and we would smoke cigars. We were we would smoke pipes. And we would in
the winter we would go in his garage and somehow do that. But we just had a great
conversation I could just remember so many great conversations around a pint of beer and
there's just something really special about beer. So all that being said, I'm excited to welcome
to landslides roundtable, Dustin, Paul and Kim, Dustin and Paul, I invited on to the podcast
because they brew their own beer. And I was really fascinated by that. And so I wanted to hear
all about how you brew beer and how they got into it. So that's what we are going to be talking
about today. So Dustin, Paul, Kim, welcome to the roundtable. Hello, nice. Yes. So um, so yeah,
just tell me like your name and tell me something neat about yourself. My name is Dustin
Doherty. Like I said, I'm a home brewer. I started I think it was oh six is when I started home
brewing. Okay, but I actually my my education backgrounds and fine art, so I actually stay
interested in Ulta. Really? That's cool. What kind of sculpting? I did a lot of metal casting. Okay,
so bronze and aluminum. Is that involved? Welding? Yeah. Wow. That's that's a cool, fun fact.
Okay, Paul.
Paul 06:05
Paul krishak I started brewing beer about eight years ago, I think 2014 I was finishing college
and was just looking for an outlet. I knew Dustin brewed beer so much longer before me that's
kind of how we got together doing this together. Okay, I'm the seller man at a small brewery in
Columbus. Okay, Sideswipe brewing. Okay. I don't think they'll mind me saying that.
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Lance Foulis 06:30
Probably not. Probably not. What's a seller mean?
Paul 06:33
They give me a paycheck. So just like, basically, the back room of brewing, not necessarily
brewing, but like cleaning. Washing. Okay, Kenny beer. Okay. Tanks, things like that.
Lance Foulis 06:51
Okay, that's pretty cool. Okay.
Kim 06:53
Kim Krawcheck. Married to Paul Krysiak. used to hate beer. Really? Yep. Interesting. Every time
you hear me something like I don't know what you're doing. This tastes like trash. That was his
IPA phase. I didn't really understand them. Okay. Now I love IPAs.
Lance Foulis 07:11
What does IPA stand for? India Pale Ale. India Pale Ale. I don't think I like those either. When I
was younger,
Kim 07:18
they're very hoppy.
Dustin 07:20
I think they've changed a lot over the last two. They're kind of the traditional IPAs Are They
Now they call it like a West Coast IPA or very like piney. Okay and earthy. grassy. Where now if
you talk about like East Coast IPA is you're talking more like the hops put in later in the boil.
Okay, so you get more of the fresh like fruitiness. Okay. And so you get a lot of like stone fruit
and passion through tropical fruit flavors that come through the beer. Got it rather than those
kind of grassy, earthy flavors. Got it? Okay. I mean, you guys throw out a bunch of terms there
that I don't even know. So we're gonna get into that. But I want to find out first how you guys
even got into it. And maybe since you went first Dustin, you can. Since you started first, you
can just tell us how you got into it. I think my sort of my journey with beer. I think growing up, I
was always around like the yellow, fizzy beers that my parents drank. Sure. And my parents
were like, they don't drink on the weekends. You never drank during the week. It was a Friday
night, Saturday night. Yeah, have a few beers and kind of unwind. So I think I had a fairly
healthy view of, you know, consuming alcohol growing up. And then as I got older, and I was
similar to you, I think I was like 19 or so when I got my first beer. I didn't really drink at high
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school at all. But I think it was when I started to realize there was other colors of beer besides
yellow fizzies. It was a while I was at a camp counselor in New Hampshire, okay. And I had to do
a day trip into Vermont and to Burlington and I stopped at this place for lunch in order to Miller
Light. And they're like, We don't serve that. I was like, What do you serve? And so I think they
gave me like a little flight. I think they only had like four beers. They had rainbow beer. They
had a blonde, a red ale, or amber brown and a stout. So it tastes a couple and it was like a
whole new Yeah. And so then that's what I sort of exploring beer. And then at some point, it
was after grad school. I need I think, like Paul said, it was like a creative outlet. Yeah. Because
of financial responsibilities. I moved back home with my parents and well the factory job I
absolutely hated. And that was something that I was like I beer fun beers fun. And I like beer.
Yeah. And I know that people brew it. So I bought a book, John Palmer's how to brew, okay, and
sat and just read like the first three quarters of it. And it was basically like, step by step. And I
think I read it twice and kind of like, assessed like, what equipment I would need. Yep. And
before I did it the first time and then I ran for the first time. It was just absolutely nerve
wracking. Yeah. No doubt, right. No doubt. Is it in the book the whole time he's talking about
it's like, Have everything ready. Think about the next Before you're doing this stuff and all
about cleanliness and sanitation, but sure, okay, that's that's fantastic. Paul, how'd you how'd
you get started?
Paul 10:09
So I started a long time after him actually, I think he probably started what like 2005, or
Dustin 10:15
oh six, but I took a big gap. I think I brewed for a year, year and a half, and then kind of
stopped. I had, I've met my now wife, and we were dating a lot. And then we moved in
together. And and we were just doing other stuff. And so that sort of that need to fill space and
time was sort of replaced by, you know, meeting somebody and yummy relationship. Yeah. And
then Paul started brewing again. And that's sort of what got me back into it. Interesting. Okay,
that's it some background, Paul, and I actually went to like elementary school in high school
together. Wow. We were brief briefly roommates in college roommates. Wow. So we've our
lives have kind of like went back and forth. And yeah, we've seen each other and then hung out
then not. And then I think over the last probably eight to 10 years, our relationships. I mean,
we're pretty or like our best friend. We've seen him almost every Friday. And that's fantastic.
That's a six story. So how daunting was it? Like when you guys, I mean, you probably maybe
less daunting for you, because you kind of knew from him? How to get into it.
Paul 11:19
You know, I started separately on my own. He did. Okay, yeah. And it was a lot easier for me in
2014. I mean, we have the internet and YouTube and yeah, so it wasn't like, it wasn't like going
through a book and be like, Oh, my gosh, did I do that wrong? It was like, Yeah, I can see
somebody do it. Yeah, you know, and I had, I like to have conversations over beer too. So I
talked to brewers around town and get, you know, information from them pick their heads, how
do they do this? How do you how do you do that? How did you get started? Is it kind of just like
natural progression? Yeah, I didn't have something. Because I didn't have a ton of free time in
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college. Yeah, the one I did, it was going out and having beers and, you know, probably having
conversations with people. And I think just kind of like, you know, I do need something to do.
Like, I used to be in a band before I went back to college. And that was like my creative outlet.
That's what I had. And you know, not having that. I think that's kind of what drove that. And I
think I was getting so burned out from being in school. Hmm. Like going back. It took me
almost four years going back because I switched my major from religion to business, and it was
just like this completely different. Yeah,
Lance Foulis 12:30
there pletely different tribes. You can't like criss cross those at all.
Paul 12:34
Yeah, so it just, you know, there was I remember there was one semester hadn't taken any
time off. Like I went to Franklin. We had trimesters, so you didn't get any breaks you just gross
right back in. And I made a trimester
Lance Foulis 12:48
is for a full year. Yeah, for the
Paul 12:51
full year, you have three semesters. So instead of like quarters or semesters, you just do three
semesters. So you're just ramping it up. Oh, god. Yeah. So I was going like halftime. And you
know, were you working too? Yeah, I was working like 4550 hours a week all the time. And she
just didn't have any. Yeah, didn't have any time to do anything. So it was I took us I remember,
I was like, it's summertime. And our backyard looks terrible. I just want to I want to mow the
grass and put some flowers out there. Yeah. I want to do something besides go to school all the
time. Yeah. Yeah, that's how I got into it, though. Just, it was just like, I tried something. And I
seen some videos like this looks like something I could do. And I really like beer. Yeah. So I just
went for it. And then I brought him in later, like, hey, yeah, we should brew together like,
Lance Foulis 13:43
yeah, so what was your your gap? Like, from when you had stopped? And then to when you
guys started doing that together? What was your gap? It was a good stretch. Like I said, it was
from about 2007 or eight. And so when did you say you started? Like 2014? So it's about seven,
seven years? Yeah, stretch there. Okay. So like when he came to you, and he's like, we should
brew together for you just like me, like, yeah, no, actually, I was like well, I had a newborn. Oh,
so I had a two year old daughter. And I think we were expecting one. Which they're now seven
and 10. Seven. Yeah. But those early years, man, yeah, it's wears you out. But But no, I my, my
wife was like, Yeah, you know, hang out with Paul. It's something to do. And I was still I felt like,
I still work a job I don't really love. Yeah. And it was like, it'll get you out of a rut, you know, do
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something creative because we're, you know, it's just hyper nose to the grindstone and you go
work and you do your time you watch me take care of the kids and then you you know, sleep
and repeat. Yeah, so it's like it'd be something to do and she kind of like encouraged me to to
jump in. And I think in Paul actually, there's Obviously, there's different processes that you can
kind of use to get to beer as a final product. Okay, and when I had started, it was sort of an
abbreviated, it's called extract brewing. Okay. And basically you buy like a Canna syrup, okay.
And it's I think it's probably like about but it's, it's almost like it is like a heavy syrup, okay? And
it's all the sugars that they get off of the grain. So you kind of skip a step. Got it. But you can
kind of add specialty grains to personalize it. Okay, so the, what comes into Canada is just your
very basic, like, what's going to convert into sugars to alcohol, got it. And then you can sprinkle
some stuff in for flavor and change the hops around and add the side what used to put in so it's
still very personal personalizable. Yeah. But you kind of skip a step and doing it. Yeah. And so I
had done that. And then Paul just jumped right in. Yeah. And he went all grain, like right off the
bat. And I was really intimidated to take that step when I was brewing. And he was like, why
don't you bring with me, like, you can show me some stuff. And, and he was telling me about
his process, like you're above and beyond where I ever was. So Wow. But yeah. So we kind of
started in a different method. But yeah, so like, when you when you started was, like, there
were like, to your point, there wasn't as much. Is it true that there wasn't as much like YouTube
and like, so it's really just a lot of book learning stuff. I think coming out of college and grad
school, I leaned into books anyways, sure, I did seek out books, and didn't really think to use
the internet as a resource like that. Yeah. I mean, there's definitely was and there were like,
online supply houses that still exist today to get ingredients from or equipment from? Yeah. But
yeah, it was mostly books and trial and error. And, yeah, I'm just sort of like, well of if this does
this, and I changed this to this ratio. And there's some sort of proportion fine tuning, then.
Yeah, yeah. But yeah, I felt like there in the brain community has been around for a long time
the numbering community is became legal again to brew homebrew, I think it was like in 76.
And the Carter administration got it. They really legalized it. Did that have anything to do with
like, dry? Like, what are they? What's the word for? No, thank you. Should that have anything?
Yeah, I think that's kind of where they stopped allowing homebrewing. So I took all that time
from the 30s until like the 70s until Jimmy Carter, and I think is actually his brother. I want to
say it's Baba. Okay. And there was a Baba beer, and I think it had something to do with him. He
sort of just like, one of those presidential high five. It's like, Hey, guys, you can homebrew
again. Yeah. And everybody's like, yeah. But yeah, so the there started that community up
again. Yeah. And they existed in like the 90s and 2000s. And they were Tober shops in
Columbus. So obviously, there's a market for it. Yeah. But I never I felt like very much like I
didn't know where to like meet these people at other than bumping into them at The Brew
Shop. Sure. And in those situations, I'm not the most extroverted person. Yep. I think I've
become one. Later. Yeah. Like, I'll see somebody and I was like, what you're doing? Yeah, you
said, you shoot the breeze for a while. Got it. But um, I think then I was like, I don't wanna look
like an idiot. Yeah, just don't talk to anybody. And like, the guy's probably over for like, what's
he doing? Yeah. Shoveling stuff in a bag. I don't know. That's really funny. I so. Okay. My I'm
really curious. Like, what is that when you guys both got into it? And like even now, like, what's,
what would you say? Is the the financial commitment that you got? It's probably all over the
place, right?
Paul 18:50
It can be. It can be frugal at the beginning. But then once you realize, yeah, it's gonna be a lot
faster if I buy this a lot easier. If I buy this, then it just starts adding up. So yeah, if you're
seriously wanting to do it, I would say just invest the money ran out the bread. I mean, maybe
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like a couple 1000 bucks. Y'all get started. But if you just want to try it, I mean, you could I
think my first setup all grain and everything I might have spent like $250 total, just to get
started. Yeah. That's pretty awesome. Yeah. So I mean, I bought a lot of used stuff. And I think
there's even more used stuff. Now. Dustin just bought a bunch of us stuff off Craigslist, or,
Lance Foulis 19:33
yeah, it was a Facebook marketplace. During the pandemic. We were kind of taking it serious
and not seeing each other. Yeah. As most people should have been. Yeah. And so but he was
always a lot. He bought all the equipment and had all the equipment and we would a lot of
times split costs on the supplies like the consumable part, right? But then we weren't seeing
each other. And we got I got kind of got back into one of those ruts where it's bored again. And
so I just started looking on Facebook marketplace and bought my own little setup. And I think I
spent about 300 or 350. And pretty much guy and. And actually, now that I burned for a while I
kind of knew what I needed to get get going right off the RIP. And so I'd saw the setup and the
guy that was selling it, I recently found out that he was gluten intolerant. And he kept getting
really sick. And he was like, I just can't drink beer anymore. And it stinks. Yeah, so I bought his
equipment. And so he let it go to a fair price. Yeah. But yeah, I think that's a lot of people
upgrade as they go along. So the marketplace and Craigslist, that's a good place to look for
used equipment, because people are, they're trying to help finance their next thing by selling
the old thing. Sure. That That makes sense. So like, it doesn't sound like a terrible process to
get up and running. And what I do find every everybody that I've had on and we've talked
about something like this, that's a hobby, especially like a creative outlet, they say a lot of
things that you guys have been saying just the need for the creative outlet, because of the
mundaneness of your regular responsible adult life. Yeah. And it's funny, because a lot of
people have said, like YouTube, I just started watching videos on the subject. And then I got
into it, like the first guy that I had on, we talked about hunting. That's essentially how he got
into it, because he didn't grow up hunting. And then he found somebody that could take them
out and show them the ropes. And that's kind of how I got started. And everything does have
like a financial a financial cost to get started. But it seems like with a lot of these types of
hobbies, you can get started for relatively low. And then if he if you really like I mean, this
whole setup that we have for the podcast, we started off not anything remotely like this, but
then I really enjoy doing the podcast. So we then we decided to make a more significant
investment. And it does make a big difference. This equipment makes the podcast way more
efficient. So I get what you're saying about like, Oh, if I get this equipment, it'll cut my my time
commitment from this step from four hours to one hour.
Paul 22:05
Well, I think originally to I think we both had this discussion, like originally when you start
brewing, you're like, oh, I can save so much. Yeah, yeah, now. I save money. But it's a fun thing
to do. So. So
Lance Foulis 22:21
yeah. So like, tell me about let's talk about just the process of brewing beer. How do you guys
go about it? Well, like I said, we we do all grain. So basically, we start with barley, majority of
its barley is your base grain. And it's been molted, where they sort of start the process of it like
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its barley is your base grain. And it's been molted, where they sort of start the process of it like
sprouting. And so that kind of weakens the outer shell. And it gets it easier to get to the sugars
that are inside there. Got it. And so I usually we're talking about sort of how we explained it to
people sort of in preparation of this and I said, I usually tell people it's like making a giant batch
of tea. Yeah. So like I my, what's called a mash tun. But that's where you see steep the grain
and hot water. Okay, and sort of the temperature of the water depends on how you want the
final outcome beer to be as far as like, how dryness, how dry, how much body you want to it.
What are those terms mean?
Paul 23:19
So like a lager would be like a drier beer or some a lot of IPAs are drier, too, like you get a finish
in the back of your throat where you know, you want to take another drink. Yeah. But you can
balance that out too. Okay, so I don't know would be like a heavier beer that would be kind of in
the middle.
Dustin 23:38
Like, well, like a red ale or something red ale? Yeah. LearnEnglish ale where there's, you can
kind of feel it more in your mouth. And like when you drink after you drink it, it's sort of like
coffee has the aftertaste that lingers on the back of the throat. Yeah, that would not be a dry
finish. Like the dry finish is usually it's gone. It's crisp. Yeah. And you Your mouth is kind of you
want to take another drink. Okay. And then sort of the more the less dry finish it's more of that
lingering sort of remembrance of what it tastes like. It was a Guinness like that then I feel like
Guinness days is actually a lot of a lot of stouts people think are like big heavy beers, but like a
Guinness is a dry Irish dry like, it's usually a lighter body and a dry finish. But they're I think
people see how black they are and are kind of intimidated. Got it. Okay. Yeah. So like the
interesting thing about Guinness is I actually did this, I did not like Guinness at all. It felt like it
tasted too much like, like, the, the container that it was in. But then I spent 28 When I was in
college, I spent 28 days going throughout Europe. And so when I was in Great Britain, I got to
have like, a pint of actual It was delicious. Yeah, that's cool. It was so delicious. Can you guys so
Okay, let's go back to the process. So you've got like, your your container, how big is the
container? It's about minus 10 gallon 10 Well depends on how much you're trying to make.
Sure brew and five gallons. That's a pretty common size. homebrew size is a five gallon or 10
gallon, we do five gallon batches. And are you are you heating it in the container? No, we we
have like a turkey fryer propane and like a big pot. And so we heat the water up and then put
hot water into the mash tun Yeah, you
Paul 25:23
hold it you hold that grain with the water that you've measured out and you get a lot of these
calculations are easy to find online. Got it? Or or even like that how to rulebook as a lot of
information on it. Got it. But yeah, you hold it for a certain amount of time, you're trying to get
as much sugar as you can get off of those grains. And while you're holding it, so some of them
will be like, some some grains, especially like darker grains can take a little longer. So you may
have to go, you know, you may have to go 90 minutes, you may have to go 60 minutes while
you're holding it just depends. I've had some that I've done for like two hours
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Lance Foulis 25:58
Paul 26:03
timer and every 15 minutes or so to give it a stir, stir it in the brewery, they just have a fork
that's raking around so they don't have to do any of that. Okay,
Lance Foulis 26:12
I think I've seen a video of what you're talking about, like a big old container and like it's
stirring it around. Okay, what what happens after that,
Paul 26:20
after that we take so much we take take it off, but we're also rinsing it at the same time. So the
grains barging,
Dustin 26:29
barging so you ours run on like gravity, basically. So you have mash tun sets, probably about
table height, okay, and then you're what's going to be your brew kettle sits a little lower, okay,
there's literally just a spigot on the front got it. And this big, it usually has a metal screen, or
there's a false bottom with lots of holes. Sure, fairly small that won't let that grain run through.
Got it. And so you're running off that liquid and it's really sticky. Has a nice, I like the smell a lot
of people hate it, you know. But you're running that off there. And then you kind of as that's
running out, that sparging process is your there's another vessel that's hotter or higher that has
the hot water in it. So as this is coming out, hot water is going back in again. And wow. And so
all the sugary water is at the bottom. Uh huh. Because it's heavier. And that clean, hot water is
at the top. And so that kind of helps you once you get to how much liquid you want. You just
stop. Got it? And then you end up with that's what you call that's gonna be the future beer.
Yep, down here. Okay. Yeah. And then,
Paul 27:33
and there's easier ways to do some people just batch sparge. Or they'll just let it right out of
the container and they'll completely
Lance Foulis 27:38
dump and then put a new batch of hot water, let it sit another 15 minutes and then run that out